Would Anybody Attempt To Fix This?

[Tony, NY]

Xxx

[34pickup]

I can't believe you would consider repairing a piston.....just me.

[flatheadmurre]

Replace it !
And you want to tear it down and get the leftovers out of the engine.

[Tom Walker]

Be good to know the brand so we can all avoid it!

[SofaKing]

Burt Munro would melt it down and recast it, I'd toss it and thats why I don't hold any world records. What went through the top? Ditto on removing the rest of it.

[Lawrie]

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My Father welded up one for his E type jag in the 70,s it got mashed by a valve and he was short of $$ so welded it up, My brother still has the car,piston still in.
But Not for me,I would get a new one or set.
Lawrie

[Lawson Cox]

Only way to repair it safely is to drop pan, pull scrap aluminum out of the hidden places, and replace the piston, same as flatheadmurre suggests.

[woodiewagon46]

Two companies that come to mind are Egge and Arias that will make any piston to your specs. I would be more concerned with the fragments that are in your oil system. Ever try to TIG weld an aluminum part that has been saturated with oil? I don't care how you degrease it as soon as you hit it with any heat you will see the oil bubble to the surface. I know you will get several people that "do it all the time" but I would get another piston.

[TJ]

If you weld it up and it doesn't hold you will have to tear it apart again. The next time may cause a lot more damage. Not a good idea in my book.

[Flathead Dave]

Tear down to clean out and replace the piston.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

This piston has a hole thru it. Exact brand replacement not available. One close in weight (8 grams) is. Plug the hole with weld and use it or? Don't really want to get into a major tear-down. Motor has a recent rebuild and practically no miles on it.

You are looking at a COMPLETE teardown.
All of the material that came off the piston is now distributed evenly ALL through the engine. Every nook and cranny and oil passage. A lot of it is hammered into the babbit. Lightly scrubbing the babbit surfaces with scotchbrite MAY remove it. May not.
In any event you need to look at everything in the engine for debris. After all this and reassembly, the engine may last forever but on the other hand it may not due to left over aluminum debris you missed.

[tubman]

If you can replace the piston, do it. On the other hand, when I dropped an exhaust valve in the early hemi in my vintage dirt car, it did the same type of damage to one of my JE forged pistons, which were new less than two years before. When I contacted JE, they wanted to sell me another set of 8 pistons for another $1200. My builder magna-fluxed the piston and found no internal damage. He then had it heli-arced and re-magna-fluxed, and found no problems. I've run it in at least 30 heats since then successfully.

Bottom line : replace it if you can, but they sometimes can be fixed if the circumstances require it.

EDIT : I should add that even though the piston was repaired, the engine was torn down completely and thoroughly cleaned.

[uncle buck]

I would contact Egge for a new one. I would also be finding the cause and address that

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, Wow that sounds like a sad story.

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Exact brand replacement not available.

Just an idea Tony, and you didn't say exactly what the brand is, but if you know, and tell us what the piston is, someone may be able to help.

As we've seen recently, a few people who hang around here, have a thing for saving old ford parts of every description.

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Don't really want to get into a major tear-down. Motor has a recent rebuild and practically no miles on it.

As others said, I'd be scared to run that for long without a very serious cleaning.

Do you know what caused this?

[Vics Stuff]

By the time you try to fix the damaged piston you could replace it with a new one. My suggestion is do it right , otherwise this will come back and bite you in the $$$$$
Vic

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Pete

You are looking at a COMPLETE teardown.
All of the material that came off the piston is now distributed evenly ALL through the engine. Every nook and cranny and oil passage. A lot of it is hammered into the babbit. Lightly scrubbing the babbit surfaces with scotchbrite MAY remove it. May not.
In any event you need to look at everything in the engine for debris. After all this and reassembly, the engine may last forever but on the other hand it may not due to left over aluminum debris you missed.

Yep... could not have offered better advice than this.

[jimTN]

You do not say what it is out of. Pistons are made by dimension, not by brand of car. It will be a certain stroke, bore and number of rings and of course weight. Lots of different make cars had the same bore and stroke.

[Bored&Stroked]

Listen to Pete!

[chap52]

Do it right...sleep good at night...

[supereal]

We use Egge or Mahle. They will make pistons to spec. Not cheap, but what of real quality is?

[El Rat]

I can't believe this is a serious question!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

This piston has a hole thru it. Exact brand replacement not available. One close in weight (8 grams) is. Plug the hole with weld and use it or? Don't really want to get into a major tear-down. Motor has a recent rebuild and practically no miles on it.

Even if you could weld/repair..fill the holes..How do you know they will stand up under the heat, pressure, explosions of the internal combustion Engine!
Replace/ If you can't find the parts...get another engine!
I can't believe that you can't find a replacement? Is it a flathead?
Search for original parts if you have to.
I knew a guy with a 1933 packard and searched for 2 years for a part!

[Pete]

"--Quote (Originally by FrankWest)---
Even if you could weld/repair..fill the holes..How do you know they will stand up under the heat, pressure, explosions of the internal combustion Engine!"

Frank, don't give welding a bad name. Pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts and wrist pins have been welded, remachined and run for years in street applications.

One of the fastest unlimited hydroplanes in vintage history ran pistons with welded domes in one of it's first races. That was an Allison aircraft engine with 80 lb of boost pressure.
There is still a stock model A engine out there running that has a crankshaft that was broken in 2 pieces at the #4 rod lournal.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Huh? Get another engine? For what? Is it a flathead? Huh?

Only if you cannot replace the piston..But Your should be able to find a replacement..It may take a little time.

[GB SISSON]

I just bought two .060 nos ford pistons from Bob Selzam in NJ for 19 bucks apiece. Of course I had to melt the cosmoline and paper off them. Maybe not the same weight as yours but maybe someone has one they'd weigh for you. I have a friend here on the island who drove a '51 dodge six in high school. When he threw a rod, he and his dad pulled the head, dropped the pan and pulled the whole works out of #3. For the last 2 years of school he drove an inline 5. Just sayin....A half ounce outa balance isn't the end of the world. (and Frank couldn't have had much oil pressure after that either)

[bobH]

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Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Thanks for all the comments. It's a 4 ring out of '51 Merc. Brand was Silv-O-Lite. Cause was a foreign object (#8 nut) found it's way into the cylinder during some work last winter . No valve or head damage. Thinking it found it's way into spark plug hole (what are the odds?). Looks like major tear down. Any recommended 3 ring pistons? Engine is .06 over now with Schneider 260-F cam and 2x2 carbs. Nut and piston pieces were retrieved.
See flattened nut dug out of piston.

You say that the nut and piston pieces were retrieved. All of them? Was there any other loose shrapnel? Was the engine run for any time under this condition, or was it immediately shut off? Pete, Kube, and others have offered good advice, and that is the proper way to go, but, it doesn't hurt to look. Just saying. Maybe pull some bearings, both rods and mains, and see if anything ran through, like small metal particles. Only a thought, and I'm still with the others that advocate a teardown.

[Bluebell]

When I was a kid, my dad lost the carb. needle valve in the grass under the car. Guess what the result was when he located another, put it in, and started the truck?

[Ardun]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Thanks for all the comments. It's a 4 ring out of '51 Merc. Brand was Silv-O-Lite. Cause was a foreign object (#8 nut) found it's way into the cylinder during some work last winter . No valve or head damage. Thinking it found it's way into spark plug hole (what are the odds?). Looks like major tear down. Any recommended 3 ring pistons? Engine is .06 over now with Schneider 260-F cam and 2x2 carbs. Nut and piston pieces were retrieved.
See flattened nut dug out of piston.

On another subject, how do you like the F260 cam?

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Thank You Pete!

WELL THEN...GO FOR IT. Repair the piston head. Look for a shop that specializes in that type of repair, and has a track record of success. You want to make sure that it is done properly. In fact, when you find such a shop they will tell you if your particular piston can reliably be fixed.

Just remember just because you are adding metal to metal it in no way implies that the part will structurally act as it was originally created. Metal is very complicated there are grain structure, work hardening factors, temper, it can be brittle or soft and the junction between the original metal and the PATCH can create large stresses that can cause a malfunction under pressure and temperatures. So any repair must be done with all these in mind.
If the repair is done without the considerations mentioned above, as a quick fix it may work, or it may work only for a limited time.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Pete

"--Quote (Originally by FrankWest)---
Even if you could weld/repair..fill the holes..How do you know they will stand up under the heat, pressure, explosions of the internal combustion Engine!"

Frank, don't give welding a bad name. Pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts and wrist pins have been welded, remachined and run for years in street applications.

One of the fastest unlimited hydroplanes in vintage history ran pistons with welded domes in one of it's first races. That was an Allison aircraft engine with 80 lb of boost pressure.
There is still a stock model A engine out there running that has a crankshaft that was broken in 2 pieces at the #4 rod lournal.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-e...-possible.html

[Pete]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-e...-possible.html

Wayne was right. It was just a scratch.
The rest of the comments were from posers.

[woodiewagon46]

I can't believe there is still a discussion on this subject. You can get the exact piston made by Egge, Arias and Mahle, just put it in a box and send it to them and UPS sends you a new one and you are still considering a repair! I have a degree in Welding Technologies and a Class 1 Welding License from the City of New York and have been TIG welding for almost 50 years and I would never attempt this repair. There are too many factors to consider besides just welding the piston. Like I originally said you will get the "we do it all the time" comments but do you really want to "keep your fingers crossed" every time you start your car? If it was a one of a kind part that I couldn't ever find of course I would weld it, but not a piston you can get new.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Tony, NY

Huh? Get another engine? For what? Is it a flathead? Huh?

Tony,
WE are only trying to help. After all, You asked the question,
Would anybody Attempt to fix this?

I, like others, are just trying to answer your question the best we can.
we wish you success, not failure.
I recommend that you try to find a replacement. After all you are NOT on Gilligan's Island where you have to make due with what you have.