Chinese Rubber from Dennis Carpenter?

[LazarusLong]

So,I bought a brand new master cylinder from Dennis Carpenter for my 51. Brakes,suspension,and tires are not areas where I take chances.

The MC works beautifully. Makes me wonder why anybody bothered with power brakes.

Howsumever! Was walking under the car that was up on a rack today because I had to replace the brake light switch because it had gone bad despite only about 3 months of use,and I notice the rubber boot tht seals the front of the MC where the rod goes through is not only cracked,but has split enough I can see bare metal in places through the cracks.

The MC may be fine,but the rubber in that boot is VERY thin. The original stuff lasted 30 years or more,and this crap didn't even last 4 months.

Anyone else had this problem?

Anyone know where I can buy a replacement MC boot that matches the original specs?

[mhsprecher]

Have you checked with a place like NAPA,or if there is an auto parts store in your area that has been around forever? They might just have one, although old rubber parts may have deteriorated.

[deuce_roadster]

You might have to buy a MC rebuild kit to get that part.

[barnfind08]

I will sell you a boot. Mine are u.s.a. Fred

[willowbilly3]

Formulation on rubber has changed a lot in the last few years. A brand new set of tires will start weather checking in a year and I've seen 3 tear old ones I wouldn't run.
Yeah, all the new m/c boots I've seen in the last few years look pretty flimsy.

[LazarusLong]

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Originally Posted by mhsprecher

Have you checked with a place like NAPA,or if there is an auto parts store in your area that has been around forever? They might just have one, although old rubber parts may have deteriorated.

The local NAPA store that had been in business since the 1920's hauled all their obsolete parts to the dump about 25 years ago. I found out they were doing this and bought 2 van loads of pistons,rings,and other engine parts from them,but everything else had already been hauled away.

Then the family that owned it sold it to someone else,and they even threw the old parts books away and went to only using computers.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by willowbilly3

Formulation on rubber has changed a lot in the last few years. A brand new set of tires will start weather checking in a year and I've seen 3 tear old ones I wouldn't run.
Yeah, all the new m/c boots I've seen in the last few years look pretty flimsy.

True. I just had to replace all 4 10 ply radial tires on my 2500 HD GMC pull truck,and they all had enough remaining tread to pass inspection. The sidewalls and even in the threads were very cracked even though they were only 5 years old,though. Not worth taking a chance on.

[1938 Coupe]

I bought front and rear rubber bumper bracket trim pieces from Bob Drakes.
The fronts were made in the USA and the rears were from Tiwan.
Every few months I have to clean the rear rubber because it milks out with a white power appearance and the front ones never need cleaning.
This happens to a car that is stored in my garage and only goes outside once in awhile. Defiantly a difference in quality between the two.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by 1938 Coupe

I bought front and rear rubber bumper bracket trim pieces from Bob Drakes.
The fronts were made in the USA and the rears were from Tiwan.
Every few months I have to clean the rear rubber because it milks out with a white power appearance and the front ones never need cleaning.
This happens to a car that is stored in my garage and only goes outside once in awhile. Defiantly a difference in quality between the two.

IMHO,there is no excuse for a major supplier to restorers like Bob Drake or Dennis Carpenter to knowingly sell inferior products without telling their customers they are inferior products.

Truth to tell,there is no reason for them not to buy "Made in the USA" rubber products to sell to their customers because their customer base will be willing to pay more for quality parts,and rubber doesn't cost that much to make in the US.

[LazarusLong]

"UPDATE
Called Dennis Carptenter today,and mostly met with attitude. They just didn't care.

The first guy I was directed to was in the returns dept,and he suggested I take the master cylinder off and ship it back to them for a replacement,which they would send once they had received mine.

Do they seriously think anyone is going to remove and drain a master cylinder,pay to ship it back to them,and then wait for a replacement master cylinder to come in they have to bleed and then install on the car,just to get a lousy $6 rubber boot?

I explained this to the guy and he told me "All I do is returns. If you want to return it,I can handle that. Otherwise you need to talk to someone else."

He did transfer me over to a technician that knew what a rubber MC boot was,though. He suggested I return it too,and when I told him I didn't want to take my car off the road for 10+ days and do all that work to replace a cheesy 6 dollar rubber boot that should have never been on a new $100 master cylinder to start with,he suggested I buy a MC rebuild kit for $28.xx so I could get the boot out of that "because we don't sell boots separate".

He then suggested I call a NOS supplier in New York.

I kept trying to tell these people that they need to inform their bosses they are selling junk and need to demand their supplier upgrade the rubber boot or they would lose business,but nobody really seemed interested.

I guess Dennis C Inc is making so much money they just don't give a damn about minor stuff.

[MGG]

I ran into a similar situation like that with a leaking water pump from a different supplier. I proved that it was a defective pump with pictures and a narrative letter but the "supervisor" "couldn't see it". I lost 2 weeks, and missed some shows before I got a different pump and got dinged for my shipping cost to send the bad pump back to boot! They did not know that I have two other old Fords in line for restoration. This supplier is now last on my list to go to for parts. Someone please tell me how bad customer service like this is good for a business which plans to stay in business for the long term.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by MGG

I ran into a similar situation..... Someone please tell me how bad customer service like this is good for a business which plans to stay in business for the long term.

Like so much of everything else today, the sheep keep-on sucking the kewl-ade and accepting the chaff. On top of that, there are the "regulars" that keep piling-on to insist that the "fed-ups" should be kissin' the scoundrel-suppliers' feet in gratitude for making available ANY type of square pegs to fill our "round holes" in the first place.........hmmmm! DD

[Ross F-1]

I understand the economics of producing these rubber parts, that have a very limited market, and where there are hundreds of variations. What I don't get is that 90+% of the cost is making the dies/molds for casting them. The Asians are very good at producing the molds cheaply, but skimp on the lowest cost part, the rubber itself. Why don't the suppliers simply bring the molds over here and cast them themselves, where they have some control over quality?

[alchemy]

It's pretty sad when Dennis Carpenter, who made their name molding repro plastic and rubber, sells a cheap Chinese rubber part. And then won't help the buyer with a simple solution.

[JM 35 Sedan]

I suspect DC, BD, and the other major old car parts suppliers are sourcing the MC they sell, and that probably comes from their supplier with the rubber boot already attached. Most likely the source these folks are using is located in China. Maybe contact a US based rubber parts manufacturer, such as Steele, and see if they offer a quality replacement rubber boot like you need.

Now here's another thought for those who continually complain about the quality level of parts and services offered by our suppliers presently in this business. In the case of this particular rubber part, consider using your own savings to have a multi cavity mold made, buy some rubber extruding/molding machines, do the engineering research necessary to determine the correct material to use, test and retest the product to make sure it will hold up in actual use, find a manufacturing site here in the USA, then go into business yourself supplying these boots to the huge global market that must exist. Get exteemly wealthy making this quality part, then start looking for more cheap, low quality parts to start manufacturing.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by MGG

I ran into a similar situation like that with a leaking water pump from a different supplier. I proved that it was a defective pump with pictures and a narrative letter but the "supervisor" "couldn't see it". I lost 2 weeks, and missed some shows before I got a different pump and got dinged for my shipping cost to send the bad pump back to boot! They did not know that I have two other old Fords in line for restoration. This supplier is now last on my list to go to for parts. Someone please tell me how bad customer service like this is good for a business which plans to stay in business for the long term.

I don't think most of the owners care anymore because they are "money market people" and not car people. They see a successful business they can buy into and eventually control that is turning a good profit,buy up control,and then bleed it dry before selling out and moving on to something else. They are "money counting widget salesmen".

I suspect even a lot of the long-time names in the restoration business are now ran by people who were taught the "Harvard Business Model" where everything is about profits and nothing else matters because when the profits drop you declare bankruptcy so you don't get stuck with the bills,and move on. Lots of these businesses have now been taken over by 2nd or even 3 generation family members,and their only real connection to old cars is related to the bottom line on their balance sheet.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by alchemy

It's pretty sad when Dennis Carpenter, who made their name molding repro plastic and rubber, sells a cheap Chinese rubber part. And then won't help the buyer with a simple solution.

My wiper arms that I ordered by Ford part numbers and were listed on their web site as "originals" came in plastic bags with "Made in China" stickers on them.

I can't really place the blame for the Chinese production on DC,though. We have no manufacturing left in this country thanks to the ruling class politicians we keep electing,so the DC company probably has no choice about where to buy them.

I just wish they hadn't used the word "Original".

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

I understand the economics of producing these rubber parts, that have a very limited market, and where there are hundreds of variations. What I don't get is that 90+% of the cost is making the dies/molds for casting them. The Asians are very good at producing the molds cheaply, but skimp on the lowest cost part, the rubber itself. Why don't the suppliers simply bring the molds over here and cast them themselves, where they have some control over quality?

Anybody that things bringing a old car back on the road in presentable driver condition and with everything rebuilt related to safety is cheap has never done it. I don't even have my car in semi-presentable condition at this point,and have already spent more on parts and labor for the things I am not equipped to do at this point than I paid for the car,and frankly I paid about $1,000 more for the car than it was really worth because I wanted one and was tired of looking. It was there,it had never been modified or covered with shiny paint to hide bad things,was sorta complete,and it sorta ran,steered,and stopped. That was close enough for me.

Because of all of the above,I would gladly pay twice or even three times as much for a quality "Made in the USA" replacement part. I suspect I am not the only one,either. Maybe restoration shops working under a customer budget don't think this way,but I am betting most hobbyists share my opinion.

I don't really mind spending the money. I just mind throwing it away on junk parts.

[LazarusLong]

"Maybe contact a US based rubber parts manufacturer, such as Steele, and see if they offer a quality replacement rubber boot like you need."

Does Steele now sell Ford parts?

I bought about 200 bucks worth of parts online today from a supplier in the midwest,and the final item I asked him about was a "Made in the USA boot" for my master cylinder. He told me they don't stock that item,but he has one in his personal spare parts collection that he will just throw in the box for free because I had bought so much.

[moefuzz]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Like so much of everything else today, the sheep keep-on sucking the kewl-ade and accepting the chaff. On top of that, there are the "regulars" that keep piling-on to insist that the "fed-ups" should be kissin' the scoundrel-suppliers' feet in gratitude for making available ANY type of square pegs to fill our "round holes" in the first place.........hmmmm! DD

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Well Said.


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