Plate Glass, Briggs or Murray Sedan

[Richard Knight]

Hi, I did do a search but did not find an answer. I have changed the plate glass to safety glass in a couple of Model A's years ago. IF you had an original paint, original upholstery car in good condition what do you do about the plate glass? Knowing that the door panels are nailed to the wooden door frame is giving me some pause about replacing the glass although I do not like the idea of having the plate glass in a car I am driving. Thanks, Rick.

[Ak Sourdough]

Whatever it takes, it's worth it to have safety glass. To me anyway.

[TerryH]

I agree.....plate glass is inherently so dangerous....

[Bob Bidonde]

Here is an interesting read about automotive glass. Enjoy!
https://www.rodauthority.com/feature...e-clearly-now/

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Here is an interesting read about automotive glass. Enjoy!
https://www.rodauthority.com/feature...e-clearly-now/

Good read Bob.

[Richard Knight]

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Guys, thanks. Jay Jay, that is exactly what I was hoping to see. Someone who has done this job, thanks. I am concerned about damaging the door panels. I had been thinking about slotting a putty knife with my dremel so I think we are on the same page. The Murray I did replace the glass in (50 years ago !) had no door panels ! UNTIL Lebarron Bonney did a complete Mohair install for me. The two sedans I am looking at both have full interiors and plate glass. Thanks, Rick.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Richard Knight

Guys, thanks. Jay Jay, that is exactly what I was hoping to see. Someone who has done this job, thanks. I am concerned about damaging the door panels. I had been thinking about slotting a putty knife with my dremel so I think we are on the same page. The Murray I did replace the glass in (50 years ago !) had no door panels ! UNTIL Lebarron Bonney did a complete Mohair install for me. The two sedans I am looking at both have full interiors and plate glass. Thanks, Rick.

Rick - this may help - I wrote up the process I used to remove the window glass to replace the felts at https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+glass+removal. If you use this process you will destroy at least one felt from each door getting the glass out, so you should probably figure on replacing the felts (if your felts are 90 years old they're probably due anyhow, as is the top rubber). Most of the vendors sell the felts and top rubber as a set.

JayJay

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Richard Knight

Hi, I did do a search but did not find an answer. I have changed the plate glass to safety glass in a couple of Model A's years ago. IF you had an original paint, original upholstery car in good condition what do you do about the plate glass? Knowing that the door panels are nailed to the wooden door frame is giving me some pause about replacing the glass although I do not like the idea of having the plate glass in a car I am driving. Thanks, Rick.

Rick - I have an original-interior Town Sedan, and removing the door panels to get to the glass and felt channel assemblies is not a huge deal. I did it to all four of the doors. You need to be very careful to tease the nails out and not rip the door panels, you can do that through the use of a thin cats-paw behind the nails, not with a screwdriver. I have an old one I use, but if you don't have one this mini-pry bar might work. Or if you're handy with a Dremel tool you might make your own from a putty knife.

I found that getting the window surrounds ("garnish molding") out was more of a hassle than removing the door panels, it took a bit of persuasion with a hammer and piece of wood from the outside to break them loose enough to get them free.

BTW, shop around for the replacement glass. I've found quite a bit of variation in the prices the vendors want.

JayJay

[redmodelt]

Check the glass before you dig into it. My 29 Briggs town sedan, had safety glass in not only the windshield but the side windows too. I recall reading someplace that by that date some states may have required safety glass in all the windows or I just got lucky that the glass was replaced in mine somewhere along its life.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Check the glass before you dig into it. My 29 Briggs town sedan, had safety glass in not only the windshield but the side windows too. I recall reading someplace that by that date some states may have required safety glass in all the windows or I just got lucky that the glass was replaced in mine somewhere along its life.

That sounds like a good plan. How can i tell if I have safety glass or not?


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[GeneBob]

Shew01,

that's easy, break it;

if you have small pieces, it was tempered glass,

if you have medium sized pieces held together by a glue layer, you had safety glass,
if you have a slice in your hand that you are on the way to the ER for stitches, you had plate glass.
Actually, a good glass shop will have a (UV?) light to shine through the glass and depending on the pattern, determine whether it is tempered or not. Safety glass has a glue layer that the glass shop should be able to find even if you cannot see it along the edge of the exposed glass.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Shew01,

that's easy, break it;

if you have small pieces, it was tempered glass,

if you have medium sized pieces held together by a glue layer, you had safety glass,
if you have a slice in your hand that you are on the way to the ER for stitches, you had plate glass.
Actually, a good glass shop will have a (UV?) light to shine through the glass and depending on the pattern, determine whether it is tempered or not. Safety glass has a glue layer that the glass shop should be able to find even if you cannot see it along the edge of the exposed glass.

Yeah.... I’ll hop right on that. ;-)


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[JayJay]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Shew01,

that's easy, break it;

if you have small pieces, it was tempered glass,

if you have medium sized pieces held together by a glue layer, you had safety glass,
if you have a slice in your hand that you are on the way to the ER for stitches, you had plate glass.
Actually, a good glass shop will have a (UV?) light to shine through the glass and depending on the pattern, determine whether it is tempered or not. Safety glass has a glue layer that the glass shop should be able to find even if you cannot see it along the edge of the exposed glass.

That's what is called, in the biz, "destructive testing". There are some other "nondestructive" ways you might get a clue, see attached.

In the picture with my gnarly fingers, the line you see logitudinal in the middle of the glass is the sandwich layer of plastic sandwiched between the two layers of glass. This is laminated "safety glass". This is in my CCPU which was fully restored in the early '80s.

Picture of the door glass in my unrestored Town Sedan shows what I believe to be original plate glass. The chip is definitely not tempered glass, and there is no evidence of any of the side glass having been replaced over the years. No evidence of lamination either. The chip looks like what a chip in any other non-tempered glass (say, the mirror on the back of your bedroom door) looks like. (All the glass will get replaced when I tear the car down for restoration this summer.)

The replacement glass that the vendors sell states that windshield is laminated "safety glass" per Federal law. Side glass specs seem to vary, some sell 3/16" "tempered" while some sell the same spec as windshield, namely 1/4" "safety glass".

JayJay

[shew01]

Originally Posted by JayJay

That's what is called, in the biz, "destructive testing". There are some other "nondestructive" ways you might get a clue, see attached.

In the picture with my gnarly fingers, the line you see logitudinal in the middle of the glass is the sandwich layer of plastic sandwiched between the two layers of glass. This is laminated "safety glass". This is in my CCPU which was fully restored in the early '80s.

Picture of the door glass in my unrestored Town Sedan shows what I believe to be original plate glass. The chip is definitely not tempered glass, and there is no evidence of any of the side glass having been replaced over the years. No evidence of lamination either. The chip looks like what a chip in any other non-tempered glass (say, the mirror on the back of your bedroom door) looks like. (All the side glass will get replaced when I tear the car down for restoration this summer.)

The replacement glass that the vendors sell states that windshield is laminated "safety glass" per Federal law. Side glass specs seem to vary, some sell 3/16" "tempered" while some sell the same spec as windshield, namely 1/4" "safety glass".

JayJay

Thanks, Jay Jay, for your nondestructive tips. I’ll check my car when I get a chance.


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[mercman from oz]

Thanks, Jay Jay for this picture of Safety Glass. In Australia, quite often we refer to this Glass as Triplex, because it consists of three layers. A Perspex type of material separates the two layers of glass.
If water seeps in between the layers, the glass becomes useless, as you cannot see through it.

[mercman from oz]

Side Windows on an Australian 1936 Ford Deluxe Touring Sedan showing that water has come between the Glass and Perspex, ruining the Glass. When it gets like this, it has to be replaced.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by shew01

Thanks, Jay Jay, for your nondestructive tips. I’ll check my car when I get a chance.


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I checked, and my glass is laminated with something. I presume this is safety glass.




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[JayJay]

Originally Posted by shew01

I checked, and my glass is laminated with something. I presume this is safety glass.




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Shew - Looks like laminated safety glass to me.

On another note, that is lovely woodgraining on the garnish molding. Would you please PM me with who did it, or did you do it yourself?

JayJay

[Y-Blockhead]

The Ford Garage has a good article on tempered and laminated glass.

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/craiglewisglass.htm