Hydraulic Brakes ?

[Steve Seidl]

I have an old set of hydraulic brakes in my 33 and they bind up consistently. Looking at replacing with possible disc brakes. Any suggestions out there ?? Sid

[jimvette59]

Rebuild your existing brakes completely. Remove the backing plates and start from there. Blast the backing plates, inspect and paint, new wheel cylinders , new shoes , new springs and rebuild or replace your Master cylinder and Brake fluid collects water and rusts out the insides of wheel cylinders and master cylinders . Changing to disk brakes will not solve your problem. Time for a TOTAL brake job. JMHO. Jim T

[Ford Freak]

I agree w/Jim . Flush the steel lines out good too , if I may add ......

[51504bat]

When I bought my '39 p/u the PO had redone the brakes including an off shore M/C. The brakes would lock up occasionally. Replaced it with a USA made Wagner, end of problem. Might be just the M/C or not but worth checking IMO.

[jimTN]

You will not know till you pull each hub and check your wheel cylinders and brake shoe travel. The 39 brakes can freeze up where they pivot at the bottom of the shoe. If any of the wheel cyls are corroded up they will cause a problem also.

[Mart]

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Lots and lots of early fords use the stock hydraulics successfully, in many cases as conversions on older cars. Parts are easily available. Please give it a go and get it fixed up with the hydraulics. It may be just me but disc brakes just don't sit well on the early fords. Lots of people on here will give you any info you need.

Mart.

[fordv8j]

When you get everything cleaned and replaced, I would use dot5 brake fluid, used it for years , it don't corrode wheel cylinders like dot-3

[Steve Seidl]

All good info .I am going to do a rebuild on what's there now. Looking at a two port Master cylinder that feeds separately to front and Rear cylinders. (Drake). Also looking at installing a 2nd spring for retracting the shoes. Lack of driving part of the problem. Input much appreciated!! Sid.

[Flathead Fever]

My first ride in a '32 Ford Roadster with Early Ford hydraulic brakes I asked the driver,
"are these brakes as bad as everybody claims". He just continued driving and didn't say a word. Then he slammed on the brakes and sent me face first into the windshield. He said, "what do you think". After that little demonstration I knew there was nothing wrong with using Early Ford hydraulic brakes. A lot of the people that will tell you they bad are trying to sell you a new brake system

They are not binding because they are an old design, something wrong. You need to go through them from one end to the other to make sure they are safe. You do not have a primary and secondary brake system to protect you if something were to fail. The system needs to be perfect. The brake fluid will adsorb moisture into to the system at about 3% each year. Even though its a sealed system the expansion and contraction from temperature change will draw moisture into the system. If your brake fluid is brown it is because water has gotten in there and started rusting the metal. If it is black it is from the rubber cups starting to fail. You should flush the system every two-year's. During a Bendix brake class the instructor told us that if you flush the system every two-years the cylinders and seals will never go bad. At my fleet mechanic job we flushed the brakes every time we did a brake job and we rarely had a wheel cylinder or master cylinder go bad. They kept these vehicles at least 15-years. There is nothing wrong with a single system if its maintained well. Make it a habit of looking at the backside of your backing plates for signs fluid leakage, especially if the car has been sitting for awhile. I'm not sure about early Fords but most brakes systems that use drum brakes have a residual brake valve in the master cylinder. What this does is keep just enough pressure on the rubber cups to keep the expanded against the cylinder but not enough pressure to make the cylinder's piston move. If you have an old car with hydraulic brakes you do not drive very often every once in a while get in it and step on those brakes a few times to maintain that residual pressure in the system.

If "binding-up" means they are locking up and skidding occasionally. Check for grease or brake fluid on the shoes, its almost always the rear brakes. The fluid does the opposite of what you would think. Instead of the drum not being able to grab the slippery shoe the shoes will suck themselves against the drums and lock the wheels with just a little pressure. Like a water glass sitting on a wet table, you need break the suction between the table and glass to get it to let go. If you have fluid leaking on them they will be very sensitive to pedal peddle pressure and will be "grabby". They should release as soon as you back off the pedal. If they are locking up and not releasing at all unless you open a brake bleeder then make sure the master cylinder's piston is returning all the way back to its snap-ring stop and that you don't have the pedal adjustment set too tight. If the piston cannot return all the way back to its stop it will not uncover the return port in the cylinder that allows the fluid to flow back into the reservoir and they brakes will remained locked up.

[Ol' Ron]

This is a can of worms. The original brakes in proper operating condition would lock em up. However they never srated in adjustmen for very long, so tey added hydrolic braked to the original system and they work great. However, If you plan on taking it up to 65 70 mph on the freeway, Then you might consider disk and a better rear drum system.

[supereal]

If the brakes "bind up" as you drive and use the brakes, usually the problem is the master cylinder "residual"valve. This keeps a bit of pressure in the system so you don't have to pump the brakes each time. A faulty valve will retain too much pressure, and apply the brakes as you drive. To be sure, put the car with the wheels off the ground and pump the brakes until they lock when the pedal is released. If all brakes lock, it is the master, If only one locks, either the wheel cylinder is corroded and sticking, or the return spring is broken or weak. Installing disc brakes is a big job requiring new plumbing for a proportioning valve. At our shop, we don't recommend going to DOT5 silicone fluid without replacing all cylinders and flushing the lines with alcohol.

[JSeery]

Or upgraded to bendix brakes, they are much easier to adjust and maintain

[gajeepguy]

Don't forget to put on new rubber hoses. They can look new on the outside but totally cooked on the inside........-RG

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by gajeepguy

Don't forget to put on new rubber hoses. They can look new on the outside but totally cooked on the inside........-RG

AND.. The hoses can get a 'bubble' on the inside that acts like a check valve. Your foot pressure will force fluid through the system, expanding the brake shoes, but the return springs aren't as powerful and so the brakes stay expanded causing the bind in the brakes. This has happened to me twice.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Steve Seidl

All good info .I am going to do a rebuild on what's there now. Looking at a two port Master cylinder that feeds separately to front and Rear cylinders. (Drake). Also looking at installing a 2nd spring for retracting the shoes. Lack of driving part of the problem. Input much appreciated!! Sid.

'going to rebuild'...
If this is your plan, I'd replace / upgrade to Bendix shoe system, if you do not have that now.
I'd replace ALL the lines, as this is not that big deal.
Now, if you replace all the lines, cylinders...this is excellent time (with new clean lines) to install only DOT 5 (silicone) fluid. As said it does not allow for water absorb contamination, as the other fluids do. Do not mix this with other fluids and you will have an end to rusty lines and cylinders. Did this two years ago with my '30 roadster and Lincoln brakes...works great and even tho not driven much...no problems ! Good luck.