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Old 08-04-2021, 12:13 PM   #1
ChadCurrent
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Default Timing issue on a 292?

I haven't been very active for a while with work and other things getting in the way but I'm back with a new question.



I have actually gotten dad's old 56 tbird to move down the road
It has a newly rebuilt 292 powering a borg warner t10 4 speed and 4:10 rear end.
I didn't own a carburetor or distributor that would fit the engine so I bought a adapter plate to bolt on a 500cfm edelbrock carburetor and one of those electronic distributor kits on ebay. It was able to fire up first try once gas filled the carb and starts very easily. Sitting in the garage it idles great and really good throttle response but that's as far as it gets. Out on the road it's really sluggish no pep like it's struggling to pull itself. It gets really loud almost like knocking trying to pull itself up to 55mph. It also gets pretty hot quick. Why I think it's timing issue.

Here's my problem,

When you connect the timing light to cyl #1 the timing mark on the pulley is way off when idling almost an inch off and adjusting the distributor makes it die.

Is it possible that we didn't get the distributor installed dead on #1 TDC? How is it that it runs if it's that far off? I would think that the timing chain and cam would be right or it wouldn't run at all or horrible.



We did run a vacuum line off the carburetor to the vacuum advance but it didn't seem to make a difference.



Any suggestions as to why it runs with the timing marks off so far? I'd like to get it running and driving good down the road so I can finally send it out for paint.



Thanks for reading.
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Old 08-04-2021, 01:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

your unhooking the vacuum advance when using the timing light right.
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Old 08-04-2021, 01:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Quote:
Sitting in the garage it idles great and really good throttle response but that's as far as it gets. Out on the road it's really sluggish no pep like it's struggling to pull itself.



When that happened to me other other day (after messing with my timing) I realized I hadn't reconnected the vacuum line back to the distributor. Can't speak to the other issues, though.
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Old 08-04-2021, 02:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Actually no i didn't. Would that cause it to advance that far? I haven't messed with a carburetor and timing light for well over 30 years.
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Old 08-04-2021, 03:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Ignition timing and vacuum advance confuse people, because they are usually a little uncertain how it works. Follow the instructions. Disconnect the vacuum advance and plug the vacuum port at the carburetor. Make sure the initial setting is accurate at idle, somewhere between 6 and 12 degrees is fine. But you're not done yet, make sure the distributor advances the timing smoothly all the way up and back down at high RPM and back again down to idle. Most any OHV V8 ever made wants about 34 to 36 degrees total timing. Keep in mind "total timing" does not include vacuum advance.

Retarded ignition timing will often run extremely (red) hot in the manifolds and exhaust, because much of the the fuel charge is no longer burning in the combustion chambers where it belongs, and it will be down on power severely.
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Old 08-04-2021, 04:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

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Ah so maybe it's Retarded since it's hot and lacking power. I couldn't remember which way was advanced and which is retarded.

My carburetor experience was more on 80s cars and never on 50s. Never have installed a distributor on an engine before either. My experience stopped at rotor cap, button, plugs and wires. I think the only time I remember using a timing light was when we changed a timing chain but I was only helping and a teenager at the time.
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Make sure the distributor is in the right place. Get # 1 cylinder (front, passenger side) up on compression stroke. You can usually tell it's there by noting the exhaust and intake valve on #1 cylinder are loose (both valves are closed). This should be top dead center (TDC). Check the pointer to the timing mark on the damper. It should be on the first mark. Then check the distributor - the rotor should be pointing to #1 cylinder on the cap. This should be your starting point. Then you can advance the timing using a timing light.
Remember, the crank turns two times to the camshaft so the piston comes up to top dead center twice in one cam revolution. For timing, you have to get TDC on the compression stroke (when the valves are closed).
Also keep in mind that the damper with the marks over time can get loose and rotate, screwing up the readings. EDIT See my comments below
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Last edited by paul2748; 08-05-2021 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 08-04-2021, 09:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul2748 View Post
Also keep in mind that the damper with the marks over time can get loose and rotate, screwing up the readings.
I've had that issue!
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadCurrent View Post
... I have actually gotten dad's old 56 tbird to move down the road ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul2748 View Post
. . . Also keep in mind that the damper with the marks over time can get loose and rotate, screwing up the readings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
I've had that issue!
The '55/'57 T-Bird crank pulley assembly has the timing marks on the rear lip of the pulley not on the rubber mounted damper ring (like other Ford pulleys). The halves of the pulley sheaves are riveted to the center hub and can't move unless the 6 rivets are removed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pulley timing marks copy.jpg (37.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Bird crank pulley example.jpg (53.3 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg timing marks advance c.jpg (51.3 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 08-04-2021 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 08-04-2021, 11:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Ummm, I don't think you are going to get the engine running right until you find a '57 or later Y-block distributor which has mechanical advance, since you have converted to a newer style carburator. Remove your old loadomatic distributor and put in the '57 or later mechanical advance distributor.
Do that first, then see what you got.
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Old 08-04-2021, 11:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

When checking timing, I concur with paul2748, but if you really don't want to remove the valve cover, you can just remove #1 spark plug and rotate the crankshaft till it is at the TDC mark. Stick your finger in the #1 spark plug hole and feel the valves under the cylinder head. If both are closed, you are at TDC. If either valve is opened, you need to rotate crankshaft again and repeat until both valves are closed.
DO NOT rotate crankshaft while your finger is stuck in the spark plug hole!!!

Rotating the crankshaft can be a one-man operation if you have a handheld push-button switch cabled from the battery (positive terminal) and the other wire clipped to the start terminal of the starter relay (solenoid). The switch needs to be the type that has a spring-loaded button that engages when the button is pushed and dis-engages when the button is released.

Last edited by Daves55Sedan; 08-07-2021 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

It doesn't have a loadmatic. it has this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/32264661452...IAAOSw~fpZjI5q


I'll make sure it's on the it's on the compression stroke. Would it even run if it wasn't ???

Also my Balancer is like the one dmsffr pictured and it has been rebuilt by Damper Dr last summer.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Do you have a RESISTOR between the IGN SW and GM STYLE DIST/COIL?

I was never much for sticking my fingers in holes and it is not calibrated to read TDC accurately. You need a PISTON STOP TOOL to take all of the guesswork out of it (IMO).
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

It's a 56 which should be a negative ground 12V. Shouldn't the switch leads be on the positive side of the battery and the solenoid. That is the way I have it set up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan View Post

Rotating the crankshaft can be a one-man operation if you have a handheld push-button switch cabled from the battery (negative terminal) and the other wire clipped to the start terminal of the starter relay (solenoid). The switch needs to be the type that has a spring-loaded button that engages when the button is pushed and dis-engages when the button is released.
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Yup he's right. I forgot it is a TBird


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
The '55/'57 T-Bird crank pulley assembly has the timing marks on the rear lip of the pulley not on the rubber mounted damper ring (like other Ford pulleys). The halves of the pulley sheaves are riveted to the center hub and can't move unless the 6 rivets are removed.
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Old 08-07-2021, 08:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul2748 View Post
It's a 56 which should be a negative ground 12V. Shouldn't the switch leads be on the positive side of the battery and the solenoid. That is the way I have it set up.
Oops, you are correct. I had my 6-volt positive ground thinking cap on, but I have corrected the above post.
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Old 08-12-2021, 03:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
Do you have a RESISTOR between the IGN SW and GM STYLE DIST/COIL?

I was never much for sticking my fingers in holes and it is not calibrated to read TDC accurately. You need a PISTON STOP TOOL to take all of the guesswork out of it (IMO).


Do I still need a resistor when running a new style electronic distributor and edelbrock
carb?
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Old 08-12-2021, 05:15 PM   #18
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Post Re: Timing issue on a 292?

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Originally Posted by ChadCurrent View Post

Do I still need a resistor when running a new style electronic distributor and edelbrock carb?
No BALLAST RESISTOR needed. It is a GM HEI (small cap) copy (CHINESIUM - Most likely MING DYNASTY). They (MANUFACTURERS) have had trouble with some DIST IGNITION CONTROL MODULES but many can take the actual GM IGN components (AC DELCO) as service replacement.

You most likely will need to put it on a DIST MACHINE to see if the curving is correct.
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Old 08-14-2021, 05:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Timing issue on a 292?

Well I went to my mom's today to tinker with the car and fiddled with the distributor, disconnected the vacuum advance and got it pretty close to two lines above tdc. It was a little too hot outside to dig out the stuff piled around it to take it for a spin today.

Probably going to look at checking all the valve lash one more time as it still has a little bit of a ticking when it idles. I don't know how much is normal on a new engine build.

https://youtu.be/MFeabFPtZ9w
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