New Battery shut off switch, now ammeter is strange

[jquinlan]

Today I installed a Snyders battery cutoff switch with the bracket that attaches to the bottom bolt of the starter. I took my time and hooked it all up and everything seemed fine. Except for the fact that now when I start the truck the ammeter pegs completely to the right indicating charge and it stays there even after running the truck for 10 minutes.

Something must be wrong but I'm not sure what I could have done to cause this. The engine seems to run well but the needle points completely to the right on the ammeter. I'm pretty sure the battery is good. And I didn't forget to attach any of the wires on the starter switch.

Any ideas or tips how I can troubleshoot this? Thank you

[Jim/GA]

Is the car 6 volt or 12 volt system?

Generator or alternator?

Can you post a picture of how you wired it all up? Which cable did you install the big switch in?

With the engine not running, turn the headlights on and look at the ammeter. It should show a discharge of about 10 amps.

Does the car have any accessories? Lights, turn signals, etc?

[Mike V. Florida]

You need to follow the wiring on the wiring diagram. Your switch should be in the wire right from the battery between 3 and 4. Battery, switch, starter then out to the car.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

You need to follow the wiring on the wiring diagram. Your switch should be in the wire right from the battery between 3 and 4. Battery, switch, starter then out to the car.

Could the switch also go between 1 and 2?

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by M2M

Could the switch also go between 1 and 2?

Yes. In fact, that is the BEST place to put it!

[30 Closed Cab PU]

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Originally Posted by BillLee/Chandler, TX

Yes. In fact, that is the BEST place to put it!

Perhaps this has been posted before, going to ask anyway, why is 1 and 2 better?

[Benson]

The diagram in post 3 is a great idea for long distance troubleshooting !

The numbers make it much easier for everyone to troubleshoot and follow along!

I remember seeing it for sometime now but family health problems for last two years do not always allow me to read in detail and follow the threads closely.

[jquinlan]

It's a six volt system with an alternator. Truck has a negative ground and as you can see in the picture it corresponds with the chart that Mike V posted being between 3 and 4. I went with that configuration because it worked with the battery terminals/cables I already had. Would have preferred it going to ground instead. Accessories include turn signals which work very well.

Put a voltage meter on the battery and it registered six volts.

I just went out and turned the lights on with the engine off and the ammeter did register discharge.

During the install I did tap kind of hard on the battery terminals to try to seat them better (with a hammer).

[Truckerjim]

6 Volt is usually Positive ground not negative

[jquinlan]

Here is a link to a video of what is happening. When it jumps to the right, I wasn't touching anything.
https://youtu.be/_WVVRaiUcvA

I just put the truck on a trickle charge and will charge it up for awhile and see if that still happens. Perhaps battery is going bad.

[wmws]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Perhaps this has been posted before, going to ask anyway, why is 1 and 2 better?

Because between 3 and 4 you will always have a hot wire between the switch and 3. Much better to have it on the ground cable.

[Patrick L.]

Its easy to disconnect the new switch and see if the problem disappears or stays.

[1931 flamingo]

with a hammer?????
Paul in CT

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by jquinlan

It's a six volt system with an alternator. Truck has a negative ground and as you can see in the picture it corresponds with the chart that Mike V posted being between 3 and 4. I went with that configuration because it worked with the battery terminals/cables I already had. Would have preferred it going to ground instead. Accessories include turn signals which work very well.

Put a voltage meter on the battery and it registered six volts.

I just went out and turned the lights on with the engine off and the ammeter did register discharge.

During the install I did tap kind of hard on the battery terminals to try to seat them better (with a hammer).

What do the smallish red wire and black wire that I can see in the photo, under the big nut on the fuse holder, connect up to? What do they power?

If either of them is taking power, it will add to the charge that the ammeter is indicating is going to the battery. It's not really going to the battery, it's going to whatever is connected here.

Also a bad idea to tap down on battery cables. (I have done it myself. Very tempting.) Spread the cable ends out to allow them to slip fully over the post, then tighten up the nut/bolt to clamp them on.

Look for a slight short to ground somewhere in the fuse holder, battery cable and starter switch (or new cutoff switch) that is giving this big output from the alternator.

[rfitzpatrick]

My ground side has two large wiring leads, one is bare medal to the frame the other to transmission attachment. My positive side is single lead. How is it possible I would put my shut-off on the ground lead, maintaining duel leads?
Thanks

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

Originally Posted by rfitzpatrick

My ground side has two large wiring leads, one is bare medal to the frame the other to transmission attachment. My positive side is single lead. How is it possible I would put my shut-off on the ground lead, maintaining duel leads?
Thanks

You may not be the ONLY person out there with "dual leads", but I have never heard of that before! Most run a ground lead from the transmission to the frame and then the normal frame-to-battery lead


The cut-off is then inserted between the frame and the ground of the battery.



To answer another question, this arrangement protects the ENTIRE system and leaves only the "tool across the battery posts" as the only remaining failure mode.

[Badpuppy]

Originally Posted by jquinlan

Today I installed a Snyders battery cutoff switch with the bracket that attaches to the bottom bolt of the starter. I took my time and hooked it all up and everything seemed fine. Except for the fact that now when I start the truck the ammeter pegs completely to the right indicating charge and it stays there even after running the truck for 10 minutes.

Something must be wrong but I'm not sure what I could have done to cause this. The engine seems to run well but the needle points completely to the right on the ammeter. I'm pretty sure the battery is good. And I didn't forget to attach any of the wires on the starter switch.

Any ideas or tips how I can troubleshoot this? Thank you

Stuck the battery back in backwards?

Acts like the alternator is connected through the ammeter straight to ground.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Badpuppy

Stuck the battery back in backwards?

Acts like the alternator is connected through the ammeter straight to ground.

Would explain why he had to use a hammer on the terminals since the battery posts and battery clamps are different sizes. For seating should take only very slight/gentle taps to seat a terminal. Usually the taps using the handle of a screwdriver is good enough.

[rocket1]

I'm wondering if you first disconnected the battery ground cable before you started installing the switch,if not did any wire flash to ground while you were working on it? Most alternators are internally regulated you might have damaged the alternator,just a thought.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Perhaps this has been posted before, going to ask anyway, why is 1 and 2 better?

Can we start a new topic thread to discuss just this question (instead of having it embedded in a thread about a shut off switch problem)?

I'd really like to share my thoughts, but I'd like them to be found in a thread that people can see the title of and know what will be in there.

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by rfitzpatrick

My ground side has two large wiring leads, one is bare medal to the frame the other to transmission attachment. My positive side is single lead. How is it possible I would put my shut-off on the ground lead, maintaining duel leads?
Thanks

The switch will, or should, work mounted to the hot lead. I'm concerned just how it was installed. Thats why I mentioned removing it to see if anything was wrong.

[jquinlan]

I was working all day today and just got back into this. Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll address the questions and what I now think this problem might be.

When I started this project the first thing I did was disconnect the battery so no shorts happened during the switch installation. I was very careful. I also did not touch any of the other wiring and was diligent. As far as the hammer, I must have made it sound like I was pounding on the battery but it was a very small hammer and it really wasn't that hard to seat the terminal. But I agree, in the future I'll skip the hammer.

I put the battery on a trickle charge (it's an optima red top) and my voltage indicator only indicates exactly 6 volts. The new battery switch was completely removed and I wired it back exactly like it was. The ammeter again zinged over to the right and stayed there for a little while. It slowly (I'm talking 15-20 minutes) started centering the needle but never went to center.

So I'm thinking that the battery might be going bad. Shouldn't the battery charge to something like 7.2 volts or something like that? Because now I'm thinking the ammeter is just doing it's job. Battery needs more juice. When I get a new battery the cables will also be replaced and the switch will be installed on ground instead of the starter switch.

I'm not the best mechanic so does this make sense? Regardless, I sure enjoy working on a Model 'A'.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

What is the voltage going to the battery when engine is running? The battery is usually 6.8 volts when charged . Within a tenth or so.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by jquinlan

I put the battery on a trickle charge (it's an optima red top) and my voltage indicator only indicates exactly 6 volts.

So I'm thinking that the battery might be going bad. Shouldn't the battery charge to something like 7.2 volts or something like that?

An Optima 6v is fully charged at 6.3v

[Patrick L.]

With an alternator the ammeter can peg itself especially if its a 20 amp meter. It sounds like the alternator regulator is working since the ammeter needle swings back after awhile.

My concern was the pegged needle, the reason I asked about removing the switch. Since nothing changed when you did that I'm thinking you installed the switch correctly.

[eagle]

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I wouldn't replace the battery at this point. You really need to take some voltage readings and report back with them. 1. after charging with trickle charger for at least 8 hours and engine NOT yet started: 2. with engine started and idling: 3. With engine running at cruising RPM: Without these numbers, you really are only going to get guesses.

[jquinlan]

I just got a different voltage meter which is more precise than the one I was using. The battery registers 6.23 volts which I guess means it's fine. And when it's running using my less precise voltage meter it registered 7 volts which also seems good enough.

It runs very well so maybe I'm just paranoid with the ammeter pegging to the right when it starts can be normal for a model a.

It sat all night with no battery switch and didn't lose any voltage so probably no shorts or voltage loss.

Thanks again to everyone for their input. Greatly appreciated.

On a better note this morning I installed a carburetor I rebuilt and adjusted the float with shims and now no more leaky carburetor !!!

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

With an alternator the ammeter can peg itself especially if its a 20 amp meter. It sounds like the alternator regulator is working since the ammeter needle swings back after awhile.

My concern was the pegged needle, the reason I asked about removing the switch. Since nothing changed when you did that I'm thinking you installed the switch correctly.

Thanks Patrick ... good to know

[37 Coupe]

Probabley the ammeter itself.Most are junk and some suppliers are not even offering them today.

[1931 flamingo]

I think it's doing what it's supposed to do. JMO

Paul in CT

[Mike V. Florida]

REDTOP Type: 6V

These batteries are designed for engine starting applications. They are NOT recommended or warranted for use in deep-cycle applications.
Recommended charging information:

• Alternator:
  • 6.65 to 7.5 volts, no amperage limit.
• Battery Charger:
  • 6.9 to 7.5 volts, 10 amps maximum, approximately for six to twelve hours.
• Rapid Recharge:
  • Maximum 7.8 volts (regulated), no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F (51.7°C). Charge until current drops below one amp.
• Float Charge:
  • 6.6 to 6.9 volts, one amp maximum current, time indefinite (at lower voltage).
  • Strictly adhere to all limits.
• Safety Information:
  • Always wear safety glasses when working with batteries.
  • Always use a voltage-regulated battery charger with limits set to the above ratings. Overcharging can cause the safety valves to open and battery gasses to escape, resulting in premature failure. These gasses are flammable! You cannot replace water in sealed batteries that have been overcharged. Any battery that becomes very hot or makes a hissing sound while recharging should be disconnected immediately.
  • Failure to fully charge a battery can result in poor performance and a reduction in capacity.
  • These guidelines are intended for typical consumer applications. For military, commercial applications or new equipment design, please contact OPTIMA for additional technical information and assistance

[Badpuppy]

Originally Posted by jquinlan

I put the battery on a trickle charge (it's an optima red top) and my voltage indicator only indicates exactly 6 volts. The new battery switch was completely removed and I wired it back exactly like it was. The ammeter again zinged over to the right and stayed there for a little while. It slowly (I'm talking 15-20 minutes) started centering the needle but never went to center.

So I'm thinking that the battery might be going bad. Shouldn't the battery charge to something like 7.2 volts or something like that? Because now I'm thinking the ammeter is just doing it's job. Battery needs more juice. When I get a new battery the cables will also be replaced and the switch will be installed on ground instead of the starter switch.

The CCA of any battery takes a nosedive over the years. Starter motor draws it way down so it's harder to charge up again. A new battery is probably in order, but as long as it starts the car and you don't mind the needle pegging you can probably procrastinate a while. But if you have a 60-amp alternator, the wiring through the ammeter to the battery may be getting a bit warm. The 12 gauge wire in those harnesses is rated at only 20 amps.

In my coupe I found the ammeter wires are only 16 gauge, like the rest of the car (=10A). I should replace them with #10 for my 30A alternator. Maybe one day.

[jquinlan]

Originally Posted by Badpuppy

The CCA of any battery takes a nosedive over the years. Starter motor draws it way down so it's harder to charge up again. A new battery is probably in order, but as long as it starts the car and you don't mind the needle pegging you can probably procrastinate a while. But if you have a 60-amp alternator, the wiring through the ammeter to the battery may be getting a bit warm. The 12 gauge wire in those harnesses is rated at only 20 amps.

In my coupe I found the ammeter wires are only 16 gauge, like the rest of the car (=10A). I should replace them with #10 for my 30A alternator. Maybe one day.

This has been an interesting thread and I learned a few things. Thanks again for all the good info.

[d.j. moordigian]

How about a 30 amp meter?....your 10 amps over the meter..