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Old 11-01-2021, 08:51 PM   #1
jhswolf
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Default 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

Hi all,
As mentioned a in my intro a few days ago, I recently picked up a '34 Ford truck that's mostly original. My number one goal is to get it running so I can move it to a better storage area. The top issue is that it has intermittent spark to the sparkplugs.

It is a 6v positive ground system.

The previous owner had the original coil rebuilt about five or so years ago. It ran great, but then it was parked for the past 3 - 4 years. When he tried to get it started a month ago, he only got the very faintest of spark.

Since then, I picked up the truck and last week I replaced the coil unit with a new coil adapter, coil, and condenser from Van Pelts. I installed it per instructions and I was excited to see a good blue spark on #5 sparkplug the first time I tried to crank it over. I installed the plug, tinkered with adding some gas to the carb, but the engine wouldn't fire. The engine cranked over fine. I pulled the plug and checked the spark again, it was very weak. I put the plug back in and tried various combinations of a little more gas, choke, throttle, etc., but the engine wouldn't fire. When I pulled the plug, there wasn't any spark at all. I ran out of time and ideas and called it a day. (In case you're wondering, when I put the coil adapter in, I jumpered the ballast resister per the instructions).

Today (a week later) I topped off the battery, cleaned the battery ground connections, took off the coil adapter, inspected the inside of the distributor, and reinstalled the coil adapter and coil. I recorded 6.2v at the battery, 6.2v at the starter switch, and 5.9v at the negative side of the coil. (Keep in mind my VOM is a POS and the measurements aren't very reliable. I'm looking for a better quality VOM).

When I first cranked the engine over, I got a nice blue spark from #5 and #6. I put the plugs back in, added a little gas, and the engine actually fired two or three times, then nothing, the engine only cranked. I pulled the #5 plug, cranked the engine over a number of revolutions, and there was a very faint spark the very first time but then no spark at all.

This seems to be a repeat of last week's attempt. It initially has good spark, but after trying to start it a couple of times, the spark dies out.

I'm posting some pictures of the inside of the distributor. I think the white particles might be from the decayed gasket. Does anything seem unusual inside here? The point cup actually looks better than in the picture, it's just the camera angle makes it look crusty.

The truck has some of the original wiring, but there are a lot of new wires spliced in here and there. I downloaded an electric schematic and the existing ignition circuits "appear" to track with the schematic.

it seems odd that I can get spark the first time I tinker with it, but then it dies out.

I am trying to find out when the points, rotors, and dist. caps were changed last.

Normally on a small block Chevy, I would replace the dist cap, rotor, and points in a jiffy. But being a newby to early flatheads and Fords, it all looks foreign to me and that distributor cavity is very intimidating.

Has anyone had a similar problem or any suggestions on the path I can take?

Also, is there an Early V8 "bible" and source that someone can recommend?

BTW, there are fuel issues that I'll put in a separate post, I didn't want to mix things together.

Thanks,
John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Points1 a.jpg (51.2 KB, 152 views)
File Type: jpg Dist Rotor a.jpg (38.7 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg Distributor, b.jpg (54.2 KB, 151 views)
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Old 11-01-2021, 09:12 PM   #2
petehoovie
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhswolf View Post

I'm posting some pictures of the inside of the distributor. I think the white particles might be from the decayed gasket. Does anything seem unusual inside here? The point cup actually looks better than in the picture, it's just the camera angle makes it look crusty.
Given what you describe and the pictures you provided, I'd replace the coil, condenser and the distributor. Everything looks tired. You might be able to get away with just replacing the coil and condenser though....

Send the entire assembly to Michael Driskell @ 3rd Gen Auto Parts for rebuild...
See > https://thirdgenauto.com/

Third Gen Automotive
Phone: 844-327-598
2600 Old Nashville Hwy
McMinnville, TN 37110








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Last edited by petehoovie; 11-01-2021 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 11-01-2021, 09:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

High tension leads ? -Karl
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Old 11-01-2021, 10:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

That distributor looks like it needs a good rebuild. The cam looks rusty with no grease on it. The rubbing blocks may have worn down from the rusty dry cam and the point gap closed up. I would send it to Michael Driskell @ 3rd Gen Auto Parts and get him to rebuild it.
Phil.
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Old 11-02-2021, 07:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

Pete: Thanks for the reply. The distributor rebuild is a great consideration. I've seen a ton of good feedback on the Barn about Michael and Jane at 3rd Gen.
Karl: Thanks. The plug and coil wires are fairly new.
Phil: Copy on the rebuild. Thanks.

I would agree that a dist/points/rotor refresh would be an excellent idea. What puzzles me is why on initial troubleshooting I get a "decent" spark but then after a few tries, no spark at all. Maybe it's just coincidental. I had a thought this morning that maybe something is causing a voltage drop when I crank it over and after a few tries, there isn't sufficient voltage to enable a good spark. But then again, I could be overthinking this because the dist. innards do look awful.
John
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Old 11-02-2021, 07:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

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Yeah, everything has a good coating of corrosion on it - that could surely do it. As noted, have Michael at 3rd Gen rebuild the thing - it will make a huge difference. When you speak with him, see if he can swap in the 11A guts (much better advance mechanism) - is worth the few extra dollars to do it.

After the distributor is sorted out, another thing to check is the condition of the primary wiring - including the ignition resister. I'm not sure where it is located on a 34 truck, my guess is under the dash someplace. Maybe the voltage is dropping when it gets hot? You'll need a good VM to check the voltage at the coil.

As another guy mentioned, I'd certainly replace my plug wires and plugs.
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Old 11-02-2021, 11:37 AM   #7
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

I'll call Michael today about the dist. rebuild and 11A innards (although being a newb on flatheads, I don't know what that means yet, but I will use the forum search function to educate myself).

The primary wiring is fairly new, but I'll get a new set of plugs. I think I've seen several endorsements on the forum for NGK.

I've bypassed the ignition resister because I put in a coil adapter from Van Pelts and they say to bypass it when using their 6V external coil.

I'll do the distr. rebuild and see what happens.

Is there a recommended maintenance manual I can purchase for this truck?

While I'm waiting for the distr., I'll turn my attention to the fuel system and will create a separate thread for that.

Many thanks for your advice and patience as I learn how to navigate this forum.
John
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

I spoke to Michael at Third Gen and unfortunately, he doesn't have any 11A innards. Apparently they are few and far between. However, he does have the 68 innards, which have a better set of points than the '34 points. If anyone has an 11A, please let me know. Unless I find an 11A core, I will go with the 68 innards.

BTW, I did a quick search on eBay and found a NOS rotor for a '34. The box next to it reads Sorensen FO-52. $10 seems awfully cheap. Does anyone have an opinion on it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40314371724...kAAOSw4KthOQwn

Ad reads: "This Distributor Rotor is mint--Ford V8 models for 1932-early 1936"

Thanks,
John
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File Type: jpg NOS rotor a.jpg (37.9 KB, 7 views)
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Old 11-02-2021, 04:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

You dont need to replace the innards of your 34 V8 distributor with an 11A type at all. The 34 distributor is a very good unit. Just have it overhauled and cleaned up and it will be very good. It has been very damp is is corroded and rusted and the points are likely corroded and burnt as well which would make for an intermittent spark. That new rotor listed should be OK, But just send the dist to Michael and he will sort it all out. The original coil on top of the dist is a better set up than a canister coil adapter but have the coil rewound by Skip Haney. Michael may have a rewound coil in stock. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 11-02-2021, 05:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

Like Kevin said, you dont want the 11a if you are still using flat top pistons,
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Old 11-02-2021, 06:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

Kevin and Lawrie: Thank you for the wise words. I spoke to Michael today and we agreed to send the whole setup to him to inspect and overhaul as needed.

Kevin: Why would you not recommend the 11A type for this application? (Michael doesn't have any 11As in stock anyway because they are very popular items but he also recommended the 68 type because it uses a better points setup than the '34). Would the '34 V8 benefit from the 11A or 68? (Lawrie mentions flat top pistons - which I am assuming are in the engine). Is there a mechanical reason for not using the 68 points setup or the 11A advance system in this engine?

I'm on a crash learning course with early flatheads. I've got so much to learn, so I appreciate your patience!

Thanks,
John
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Old 11-02-2021, 06:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

John, The 11A has a bit more advance than standard 40 dist. Some people like the 68 base plate which has individual sets of points, but you dont need them. The original Model 40 distributor (1934) and its points design is an excellent unit and will work fine in your truck like it has done for 85 years. I actually prefer the early points design as against the separate points set design, but thats just me. Its not necessary to HOT ROD (modify) everything to make it better performing maybe. I would suspect your truck with its lower compression cast iron cylinder heads ( cars have higher compression aluminium heads) would not notice much difference anyway. Just make it right the way it was designed and you will be good to go. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 11-02-2021, 07:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

Kevin. That makes a lot of sense and I appreciate the detailed explanation. It fills in a lot of blanks.
I've always thought that regardless of the manufacturer, the base (stock) engine design is generally reliable and adding modifications may increase the performance but at the risk of lower reliability.
Many thanks and I'll have an update in about two weeks when I get the distr. back from Michael.
Cheers,
John
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Old 11-03-2021, 12:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

I too prefer the 68 advance in reference to the 11A...Not only does the 11A have a bit more advance, it advances too fast, too soon for my liking in early motors. But even the 40B that is probably in your vehicle [original for 34], is fine. Like the above knowledgeable gentlemen say, just use the original stuff, you'll be fine!
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Old 11-03-2021, 06:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: 34 Ford Pickup - Intermittent Spark

To clarify why I usually recommend converting the original distributor to a 68, or even 11a, is primarily to use the 37 and later points. The early points are available new but are terrible quality; and one out of every three nos sets have weak spring tension. Nos ones are drying up. The 37-48 points are available new in extreme high quality and are readily available. That to me is the best benefit for the conversion.

The original points are a good design and easy to adjust but until quality ones are available I have to try and steer clear of them, especially when we have to offer a warranty.

When I use the 11A I slow the curve down a bit. 68 bs 11a you would never be able to feel the difference driving the car

Last edited by 35fordtn; 11-03-2021 at 06:30 AM.
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