The Ford Barn

Brad in Germany · 08-02-2016, 02:08 AM

Can anyone explain what happened in this photo of a collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane......and the R-5 is all covered up......maybe classified/secret aircraft of some sort??!

From the damage to the GAZ-A, it looks like it was pushed sideways in the collision with no apparent damage to the airplane.....hummmm

....and here is a photo of another R-5 airplane (with the covers removed) being started with a GAZ-AA airplane engine starter rig:

Brad in Maryland

johnbuckley · 08-02-2016, 03:35 AM

Fabulous photos, Brad! Do you think the A and the plane have collided? My guess is they did not impact onto each other but have both been placed there (following separate incidents) for storage /salvage of re-usable parts at a later date, with the plane's covering there simply to limit further weather damage whilst out of use...but who knows!?

Dollar Bill · 08-02-2016, 04:52 AM

Landing gear on aircraft appears to be bent (wheel steering to the right) but I can't figure out why the prop didn't chew up the car more if plane was under its own power.

Like John mentioned, it's likely two separate accidents.

Second photo shows a most interesting way to start the plane engine using PTO from the AA.

Thanks for sharing Brad!

Benson · 08-02-2016, 05:33 AM

Maybe R5 broke loose from tiedowns during windstorm and was blown into GAZ?

Covers might be to keep ice and snow OR dust out of engine and cockpit?

Patrick L. · 08-02-2016, 05:56 AM

It does look like 2 separate incidents or a wind incident because there was no prop strike to the car that I can see.
Covering the aircraft was common.
There seems to be a lot of damage to the car to be related to the aircraft.

ronn · 08-02-2016, 06:16 AM

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the criminal was trying to escape in the A (he just robbed a bank), fella in the plane headed him off at the pass and saved the day!

1946 · 08-02-2016, 06:35 AM

The Shuttelworth Collection in the UK has a Model'T' truck with a similar setup for starting their ex prewar biplane aircraft. I have an idea that it is called a 'Ruck Starter'

SeaSlugs · 08-02-2016, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson

Maybe R5 broke loose from tiedowns during windstorm and was blown into GAZ?

Covers might be to keep ice and snow OR dust out of engine and cockpit?

thats my guess - only way propeller would be undamaged is the plane had to have blown into the car. not to mention why would they wrap up everything on a plane that has damage to the underside before taking the photo?

Also note the wing is buckled and torn- probably got caught in a wind storm.

In the 2nd pic are those covers in the back of the AA?

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 07:01 AM

The prop is not damaged because the plane was in park mode. That is a fitted prop and engine cover. The prop is in it's horizontal position and covered. The R-5 was not tied down, which most were not back then and the wind blew it into the auto or the auto slide into it. Very easy for both the Gaz-A and the R-5 to be so badly damaged. I believe there was a wind storm which we have all seen sometime in our lives the results on an airfield with aircraft.

Note also, the cockpits are covered also with a tarp specially made for the aircraft.

Special Coupe Frank · 08-02-2016, 07:42 AM

Perhaps Moose and Squirrel have something to do with ?

Special Coupe Frank · 08-02-2016, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad in Germany

Can anyone explain what happened in this photo of a collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane......and the R-5 is all covered up......maybe classified/secret aircraft of some sort??!

From the damage to the GAZ-A, it looks like it was pushed sideways in the collision with no apparent damage to the airplane.....hummmm

....and here is a photo of another R-5 airplane (with the covers removed) being started with a GAZ-AA airplane engine starter rig:

Brad in Maryland

Wow !

Did the air-plane starter run off a truck powered PTO, or was there a dedicated starting engine in the back of the truck ? Would love to see the torque-reaction of the truck's suspension while starting that aero-engine ! Is there any film of this rig in action ?

Special Coupe Frank · 08-02-2016, 07:46 AM

Looking at the RF wheel on the car, and the divot behind it, I believe the plane pushed into the parked car, and shoved it sideways.

Benson · 08-02-2016, 07:49 AM

About the Propeller cover: One time I saw the propeller hub on a B-17 while it was being taken apart for repair at an air show.

It was a 3 -4 hour process and exposed all the mechanics of the mechanism necessary to change the pitch on the propeller.

Having dirt inside would not be a good idea on a plane parked outside.

Hence the use of the propeller and hub cover.

Mitch//pa · 08-02-2016, 08:45 AM

We're certified accident / investigation re-enactment specialist

C26Pinelake · 08-02-2016, 08:53 AM

If it was a fight there is no doubt who won! Wayne.

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

We're certified accident / investigation re-enactment specialist

Before my squadron was moved to the Langley, we too were ground based and we had the same incidents with wind, we thought by getting away from land that problem was over, not so Grasshopper, the wind name Maria created havoc on our birds. Here we are lined up for takeoff to bomb Tokyo before they bomb us at Pearl!!!!

SeaSlugs · 08-02-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Wow !

Did the air-plane starter run off a truck powered PTO, or was there a dedicated starting engine in the back of the truck ? Would love to see the torque-reaction of the truck's suspension while starting that aero-engine ! Is there any film of this rig in action ?

ive seen other pictures of this AA setup somewhere, yea it would be a sight to see it start!

I THINK they were PTO driven.

http://www.tresburrosgarage.com/AA-GAZ-in-WWII.html

WW2 photo (note the ravens claw style connector) and a model kit that shows a bit more from the backside.

ronn · 08-02-2016, 10:15 AM

looks like a ww1 photo to me....................

DougVieyra · 08-02-2016, 10:15 AM

To 31 Model A - Post #15:

You must be REALLY old !

Did Billy Mitchel learn much from you when he was one of your students?
-------------------------------------------
Ronn - No not WW1. No such item in the Great War of '14-'18. Air Craft Carriers were developed in the late twenties and early thirties, beginning with the above (photo) USS Langley in late 1920. Above is a converted Coal carrying Ship, reconfigured and renamed after an early pioneer and supporter of the ship/plane concept - Samuel Langley.

Bi-planes (two wings) were the main service tool of the U.S. Army Air Corps (and most all nations) until late in 1938, thus were quite a common site in all nations military, with the notable exception of Nazi Germany. A prime example of this is Brad's (post #1) photo of the Russian R-5 bi-plane. It was a mainstay of Russian Air power (Recon/bomber) even through WW11, with production going through to at least 1940.

Oddly enough, a sister plane to the R-5, was the Russian PO-2, another Bi-Plane by the same designer, which was in production from 1928 through 1959 ! serving extensively in WW11.

For any of you aviation fans, if you are intrigued by the Photo (post #1) of the R-5 and would like to see it in action - a great Russian WW11 promo film shows the R-5 in action, including the Ford AA starting the propeller - on, you guessed it - YOUTUBE.

- Doug Vieyra, S-6 Division, USS Hornet, CVS-12

Special Coupe Frank · 08-02-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1946

The Shuttelworth Collection in the UK has a Model'T' truck with a similar setup for starting their ex prewar biplane aircraft. I have an idea that it is called a 'Ruck Starter'

1946- Thanks for the reference to Shuttleworth ! Going on my Bucket List !

http://www.shuttleworth.org/collection/hucks-starter/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9xS4tFhrTw

Great Lakes Greg · 08-02-2016, 11:03 AM

The car has an AA radiator.

MikeK · 08-02-2016, 11:28 AM

My guess- plane broke loose from tie-downs during a storm.

Tim Ayers · 08-02-2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

Before my squadron was moved to the Langley, we too were ground based and we had the same incidents with wind, we thought by getting away from land that problem was over, not so Grasshopper, the wind name Maria created havoc on our birds. Here we are lined up for takeoff to bomb Tokyo before they bomb us at Pearl!!!!

Wait, huh? I didn't think we were using bi-wings as bombers in WWII?

Trainers, yes. Bombers, I didn't think so.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-02-2016, 11:43 AM

"Maybe" we've been watchin' too many OLD MOVIES?
Bill Redeyes

burner31 · 08-02-2016, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

the criminal was trying to escape in the A (he just robbed a bank), fella in the plane headed him off at the pass and saved the day!

This is the story I'm going with.
But you left out the part where the tarp on the plane was used to keep the water out of the engine...from the bullet holes...from the shoot-out that ensued.

Stuff like that happens all the time.

Herb Concord Ca · 08-02-2016, 12:10 PM

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The current issue (Sept) of Classic Car has an article on the Hucks aircraft starter.

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Wait, huh? I didn't think we were using bi-wings as bombers in WWII?

Trainers, yes. Bombers, I didn't think so.

Have you ever read my book, The Secret War of Bullshit and Brilliance, a biography about yours truly and my exploits ????

My second book "I Slept with Mata-Hari" was a best seller!!! I use to feed her lines of bullshit intelligence which eventually lead to her being executed for spying.

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

"Maybe" we've been watchin' too many OLD MOVIES?
Bill Redeyes

I was one of the stunt pilots and doubled for Gary Cooper in "Wings"

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

To 31 Model A - Post #15:

You must be REALLY old !

When the Lord said, "let there be light", I was the one who screwed in the light bulb, I was the side sink man at the Last Supper...I go waaay back!!!

DougVieyra · 08-02-2016, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers :
"Wait, huh? I didn't think we were using bi-wings as bombers in WWII?

Trainers, yes. Bombers, I didn't think so."
____________________

Ah, yes, that is true Tim. BUT, as the caption said (or implied/deduced) the photos of the Bi-planes on the Aircraft Carrier was taken BEFORE WW11 ! Or at least before Peal Harbor, which, for the U.S., WAS before WW11. And even though the U.S. and Germany did not use bi-planes for bombing during WW11, all other countries did in fact use bombers of various sorts and configurations to bomb enemy targets.

The main reason that Japan was inspired to bomb Pearl Harbor, was the use twelve months earlier, of bi-plane bombers of Britain's Royal Air Force, launched from an Aircraft Carrier, to bomb and destroy the main Italian battle fleet at Taranto, Italy - November 1940.

So yes, Tim, bi-wing bombers were used in WW11. If these Bi-Wing torpedo bombers, launched from an aircraft carrier, to sink the Italian Battle Ships had not occurred, then most likely Japan would not have seen the possibility of repeating the feat on the American naval base at Pearl Harbor, Dec. 7, '1941.

While obsolete by 1941 standards, the two-wing Bi-Plane, both fighters and bombers, saw plenty of action during WW11. The greatest battle ship of WW11 was the German ship BISMARK. It was sunk by Bi-Wing dive bombers launched from a British Aircraft Carrier.

Tim Ayers · 08-02-2016, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

Have you ever read my book, The Secret War of Bullshit and Brilliance, a biography about yours truly and my exploits ????

My second book "I Slept with Mata-Hari" was a best seller!!! I use to feed her lines of bullshit intelligence which eventually lead to her being executed for spying.

Nice. Sounds like I've got some reading to this summer.

Tim Ayers · 08-02-2016, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers :
"Wait, huh? I didn't think we were using bi-wings as bombers in WWII?

Trainers, yes. Bombers, I didn't think so."
____________________

Ah, yes, that is true Tim. BUT, as the caption said (or implied/deduced) the photos of the Bi-planes on the Aircraft Carrier was taken BEFORE WW11 ! Or at least before Peal Harbor, which, for the U.S., WAS before WW11. And even though the U.S. and Germany did not use bi-planes for bombing during WW11, all other countries did in fact use bombers of various sorts and configurations to bomb enemy targets.

The main reason that Japan was inspired to bomb Pearl Harbor, was the use twelve months earlier, of bi-plane bombers of Britain's Royal Air Force, launched from an Aircraft Carrier, to bomb and destroy the main Italian battle fleet at Taranto, Italy - November 1940.

So yes, Tim, bi-wing bombers were used in WW11. If these Bi-Wing torpedo bombers, launched from an aircraft carrier, to sink the Italian Battle Ships had not occurred, then most likely Japan would not have seen the possibility of repeating the feat on the American naval base at Pearl Harbor, Dec. 7, '1941.

While obsolete by 1941 standards, the two-wing Bi-Plane, both fighters and bombers, saw plenty of action during WW11. The greatest battle ship of WW11 was the German ship BISMARK. It was sunk by Bi-Wing dive bombers launched from a British Aircraft Carrier.

Yes, thanks for the clarification. Now that you mention it, I do recall bi-wings being used as low speed/low altitude torpedo planes.

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

. It was sunk by Bi-Wing dive bombers launched from a British Aircraft Carrier.

Actually, torpedo bombers in the case of the Bismarck, a torpedo from a Fairey Swordfish from the second attack that jammed the rudder of the Bismarck.

DougVieyra · 08-02-2016, 02:39 PM

Quite true 31 Model A.

As a side note, in reference to your noting that it was a "Fairey Swordfish" Bi-Plane that put the Bismark's rudder out of effective commission - it was a fleet of Fairely Swordfish Bi-planes that sunk the majority of the Italian Navy at Toranto in 1940.

One hellava plane that bi-wing !

- Doug, Fore-topman, main mast, HMS Royal (re-tired)

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-02-2016, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31 Model A

I was one of the stunt pilots and doubled for Gary Cooper in "Wings"

WELL, our Old airport terminal, built by the W.P.A, was in an Indiana Jones film, with some OLD Bi-plane!
Bill Historian

ronn · 08-02-2016, 04:11 PM

Doug,
thx for the history lesson! had no idea biplanes were used that late.
so much BS on this thread, I dont know what to believe............................

time to get out my Matchbox cars and go play!

CarlG · 08-02-2016, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

...time to get out my Matchbox cars and go play!

Matchbox made bi-planes also.

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronn

Doug,
thx for the history lesson! had no idea biplanes were used that late.
so much BS on this thread, I dont know what to believe............................

!

It's all true...scout's honor!!!!!

No fingers crossed behind my back!!!!

31 Model A · 08-02-2016, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlG

Matchbox made bi-planes also.

YIP!!!

ursus · 08-02-2016, 07:21 PM

Though off the Model-A subject, it should be noted that North Korea still maintains a fleet of combat-ready Antunov An-2 bi-planes: https://www.nknews.org/2014/09/the-a...able-aircraft/ The Antunov An-2 last saw wartime service in the Vietnam War where it was used by North Vietnam to haul freight and paratroopers. They weren't used for very long as they drank fuel like crazy and fuel was in short supply.

Patrick L. · 08-03-2016, 07:21 AM

Antonov Colt ? The AN2 is a great airplane ! There is one near here that I've had the opportunity to fly and work on. Its the largest single engine bi-plane made and it flies like a dream. Its certainly no speed demon though.
But, I happen to like Russian aircraft, simple and rugged.

updraught · 08-03-2016, 07:35 AM

An interesting history of the Hucks:

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...-70-Years.aspx

31 Model A · 08-03-2016, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updraught

An interesting history of the Hucks:

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...-70-Years.aspx

Very interesting...thanks for posting.

Special Coupe Frank · 08-03-2016, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by updraught

An interesting history of the Hucks:

http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...-70-Years.aspx

Wonderful article !

Thank you for sharing!

Bruce Adams · 08-03-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

Quite true 31 Model A.

As a side note, in reference to your noting that it was a "Fairey Swordfish" Bi-Plane that put the Bismark's rudder out of effective commission - it was a fleet of Fairely Swordfish Bi-planes that sunk the majority of the Italian Navy at Toranto in 1940.

One hellava plane that bi-wing !

- Doug, Fore-topman, main mast, HMS Royal (re-tired)

My understanding was the Bismark's anti-aircraft guns could not be calibrated to the slow speeds of the British Swordfish biplanes.

Lawrie · 08-03-2016, 11:52 PM

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Is there not one of those types of rigs on a ford V8 truck in the US airforce museum in Ohio.
Lawrie

johnbuckley · 08-04-2016, 04:30 AM

Another useful facet of the Swordfish on aircraft carriers was their slow take-off speed of about 65 mph.

rosenkranswa · 08-04-2016, 01:47 PM

Those were "Hucks" style starters originally on Model T chassis, later on AA and other chassis such as Austin in the UK. They were powered by a PTO from the engine. The current issue of Hemmings Classic Car has a nice article on a restored Model T starter with some good detail shots. As engines got bigger and more powerful, the Hucks starter sure beat propping by hand.

mshmodela · 08-04-2016, 01:49 PM

My guess is the car was in the way of the plane upon landing --ether at night or bad weather or both...

DougVieyra · 08-04-2016, 03:33 PM

the photo shows an interesting example of a woman driver and a woman flyer meeting for coffee.

who said that ?

Certainly not me !

Marvin/TN · 08-05-2016, 12:50 PM

I don't know for sure but would guess the prop would be made of wood and would be splintered if it was turning when it hit , if it did in fact hit the car.

Marvin/TN · 08-05-2016, 12:59 PM

I had forgotten about that type of truck at the museum. That is a fantastic museum, my brother and I spent 3 days there back in 2008 and I plan to go back again. We found 3 planes that we had actually turned wrenches on, not just the type but the actual aircraft. I wear a prosthesis on my Rt leg and the place I get my legs made me a special cover for the socket on my leg. It has, among other things, a C-124 plane on it. The cover was made especially for me and of my design.

08-02-2016, 03:35 AM	#2
johnbuckley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,444	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Fabulous photos, Brad! Do you think the A and the plane have collided? My guess is they did not impact onto each other but have both been placed there (following separate incidents) for storage /salvage of re-usable parts at a later date, with the plane's covering there simply to limit further weather damage whilst out of use...but who knows!?

08-02-2016, 04:52 AM	#3
Dollar Bill Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Keystone Heights, FL Posts: 647	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Landing gear on aircraft appears to be bent (wheel steering to the right) but I can't figure out why the prop didn't chew up the car more if plane was under its own power. Like John mentioned, it's likely two separate accidents. Second photo shows a most interesting way to start the plane engine using PTO from the AA. Thanks for sharing Brad! __________________ I Love Anything That Turns Money Into Noise

08-02-2016, 05:33 AM	#4
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,599	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Maybe R5 broke loose from tiedowns during windstorm and was blown into GAZ? Covers might be to keep ice and snow OR dust out of engine and cockpit?

08-02-2016, 05:56 AM	#5
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane It does look like 2 separate incidents or a wind incident because there was no prop strike to the car that I can see. Covering the aircraft was common. There seems to be a lot of damage to the car to be related to the aircraft.

08-02-2016, 06:16 AM	#6
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,796	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) the criminal was trying to escape in the A (he just robbed a bank), fella in the plane headed him off at the pass and saved the day!

08-02-2016, 02:08 AM	#1
Brad in Germany Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Potomac, Maryland Posts: 911	Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Can anyone explain what happened in this photo of a collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane......and the R-5 is all covered up......maybe classified/secret aircraft of some sort??! From the damage to the GAZ-A, it looks like it was pushed sideways in the collision with no apparent damage to the airplane.....hummmm ....and here is a photo of another R-5 airplane (with the covers removed) being started with a GAZ-AA airplane engine starter rig: Brad in Maryland

08-02-2016, 06:35 AM	#7
1946 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Tasmania Australia Posts: 81	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane The Shuttelworth Collection in the UK has a Model'T' truck with a similar setup for starting their ex prewar biplane aircraft. I have an idea that it is called a 'Ruck Starter' __________________ Tassie Devil

08-02-2016, 07:01 AM	#9
31 Model A Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Here I am in front of Todd's Grocery in 1931 selling Grit newspapers Posts: 2,548	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane The prop is not damaged because the plane was in park mode. That is a fitted prop and engine cover. The prop is in it's horizontal position and covered. The R-5 was not tied down, which most were not back then and the wind blew it into the auto or the auto slide into it. Very easy for both the Gaz-A and the R-5 to be so badly damaged. I believe there was a wind storm which we have all seen sometime in our lives the results on an airfield with aircraft. Note also, the cockpits are covered also with a tarp specially made for the aircraft. __________________ "Bullshit and Brilliance Comes with Age and Experience" "Hey Lady, ya wanna buy a Grit?" "If you don't learn to laugh at trouble, you won't have anything to laugh at when you're old" Will Rogers

08-02-2016, 07:42 AM	#10
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Perhaps Moose and Squirrel have something to do with ?

08-02-2016, 07:46 AM	#12
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Looking at the RF wheel on the car, and the divot behind it, I believe the plane pushed into the parked car, and shoved it sideways.

08-02-2016, 07:49 AM	#13
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,599	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane About the Propeller cover: One time I saw the propeller hub on a B-17 while it was being taken apart for repair at an air show. It was a 3 -4 hour process and exposed all the mechanics of the mechanism necessary to change the pitch on the propeller. Having dirt inside would not be a good idea on a plane parked outside. Hence the use of the propeller and hub cover.

08-02-2016, 08:45 AM	#14
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane We're certified accident / investigation re-enactment specialist

08-02-2016, 08:53 AM	#15
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane If it was a fight there is no doubt who won! Wayne.

08-02-2016, 10:15 AM	#18
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,796	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane looks like a ww1 photo to me....................

08-02-2016, 10:15 AM	#19
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane To 31 Model A - Post #15: You must be REALLY old ! Did Billy Mitchel learn much from you when he was one of your students? ------------------------------------------- Ronn - No not WW1. No such item in the Great War of '14-'18. Air Craft Carriers were developed in the late twenties and early thirties, beginning with the above (photo) USS Langley in late 1920. Above is a converted Coal carrying Ship, reconfigured and renamed after an early pioneer and supporter of the ship/plane concept - Samuel Langley. Bi-planes (two wings) were the main service tool of the U.S. Army Air Corps (and most all nations) until late in 1938, thus were quite a common site in all nations military, with the notable exception of Nazi Germany. A prime example of this is Brad's (post #1) photo of the Russian R-5 bi-plane. It was a mainstay of Russian Air power (Recon/bomber) even through WW11, with production going through to at least 1940. Oddly enough, a sister plane to the R-5, was the Russian PO-2, another Bi-Plane by the same designer, which was in production from 1928 through 1959 ! serving extensively in WW11. For any of you aviation fans, if you are intrigued by the Photo (post #1) of the R-5 and would like to see it in action - a great Russian WW11 promo film shows the R-5 in action, including the Ford AA starting the propeller - on, you guessed it - YOUTUBE. - Doug Vieyra, S-6 Division, USS Hornet, CVS-12 Last edited by DougVieyra; 08-02-2016 at 11:33 AM.

08-02-2016, 11:03 AM	#21
Great Lakes Greg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,369	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane The car has an AA radiator.

08-02-2016, 11:28 AM	#22
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane My guess- plane broke loose from tie-downs during a storm.

08-02-2016, 11:43 AM	#24
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane "Maybe" we've been watchin' too many OLD MOVIES? Bill Redeyes __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-02-2016, 12:10 PM	#26
Herb Concord Ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Concord CA Posts: 637	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The current issue (Sept) of Classic Car has an article on the Hucks aircraft starter.

08-02-2016, 12:50 PM	#30
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Originally Posted by Tim Ayers : "Wait, huh? I didn't think we were using bi-wings as bombers in WWII? Trainers, yes. Bombers, I didn't think so." ____________________ Ah, yes, that is true Tim. BUT, as the caption said (or implied/deduced) the photos of the Bi-planes on the Aircraft Carrier was taken BEFORE WW11 ! Or at least before Peal Harbor, which, for the U.S., WAS before WW11. And even though the U.S. and Germany did not use bi-planes for bombing during WW11, all other countries did in fact use bombers of various sorts and configurations to bomb enemy targets. The main reason that Japan was inspired to bomb Pearl Harbor, was the use twelve months earlier, of bi-plane bombers of Britain's Royal Air Force, launched from an Aircraft Carrier, to bomb and destroy the main Italian battle fleet at Taranto, Italy - November 1940. So yes, Tim, bi-wing bombers were used in WW11. If these Bi-Wing torpedo bombers, launched from an aircraft carrier, to sink the Italian Battle Ships had not occurred, then most likely Japan would not have seen the possibility of repeating the feat on the American naval base at Pearl Harbor, Dec. 7, '1941. While obsolete by 1941 standards, the two-wing Bi-Plane, both fighters and bombers, saw plenty of action during WW11. The greatest battle ship of WW11 was the German ship BISMARK. It was sunk by Bi-Wing dive bombers launched from a British Aircraft Carrier.

08-02-2016, 02:39 PM	#34
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Quite true 31 Model A. As a side note, in reference to your noting that it was a "Fairey Swordfish" Bi-Plane that put the Bismark's rudder out of effective commission - it was a fleet of Fairely Swordfish Bi-planes that sunk the majority of the Italian Navy at Toranto in 1940. One hellava plane that bi-wing ! - Doug, Fore-topman, main mast, HMS Royal (re-tired)

08-02-2016, 04:11 PM	#36
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,796	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Doug, thx for the history lesson! had no idea biplanes were used that late. so much BS on this thread, I dont know what to believe............................ time to get out my Matchbox cars and go play!

08-02-2016, 07:21 PM	#40
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,375	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Though off the Model-A subject, it should be noted that North Korea still maintains a fleet of combat-ready Antunov An-2 bi-planes: https://www.nknews.org/2014/09/the-a...able-aircraft/ The Antunov An-2 last saw wartime service in the Vietnam War where it was used by North Vietnam to haul freight and paratroopers. They weren't used for very long as they drank fuel like crazy and fuel was in short supply.

08-03-2016, 07:21 AM	#41
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Antonov Colt ? The AN2 is a great airplane ! There is one near here that I've had the opportunity to fly and work on. Its the largest single engine bi-plane made and it flies like a dream. Its certainly no speed demon though. But, I happen to like Russian aircraft, simple and rugged.

08-03-2016, 07:35 AM	#42
updraught Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 1,971	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane An interesting history of the Hucks: http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...-70-Years.aspx

08-03-2016, 11:52 PM	#46
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,221	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Is there not one of those types of rigs on a ford V8 truck in the US airforce museum in Ohio. Lawrie

08-04-2016, 04:30 AM	#47
johnbuckley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,444	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Another useful facet of the Swordfish on aircraft carriers was their slow take-off speed of about 65 mph.

08-04-2016, 01:47 PM	#48
rosenkranswa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Malvern, PA Posts: 361	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane Those were "Hucks" style starters originally on Model T chassis, later on AA and other chassis such as Austin in the UK. They were powered by a PTO from the engine. The current issue of Hemmings Classic Car has a nice article on a restored Model T starter with some good detail shots. As engines got bigger and more powerful, the Hucks starter sure beat propping by hand. __________________ Wayne @ Barb Malvern '19 T Speedster '26 T Touring '29 A Roadster '30 AA Stakebed '30 A Pickup '30 A Town Sedan '31 A Station Wagon '38 Columbia Girls bike (WWII) '40 Elgin Boys bike (WWII) '42 Super Deluxe Tudor '42 Willys MB Jeep '43 Willys MBT Trailer '43 M3A4 Hand Cart '43 Harley Davidson 42WLA with sidecar

08-04-2016, 01:49 PM	#49
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane My guess is the car was in the way of the plane upon landing --ether at night or bad weather or both... __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

08-04-2016, 03:33 PM	#50
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane the photo shows an interesting example of a woman driver and a woman flyer meeting for coffee. who said that ? Certainly not me !

08-05-2016, 12:50 PM	#51
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane I don't know for sure but would guess the prop would be made of wood and would be splintered if it was turning when it hit , if it did in fact hit the car.

08-05-2016, 12:59 PM	#52
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: Collision between a GAZ-A and a R-5 airplane I had forgotten about that type of truck at the museum. That is a fantastic museum, my brother and I spent 3 days there back in 2008 and I plan to go back again. We found 3 planes that we had actually turned wrenches on, not just the type but the actual aircraft. I wear a prosthesis on my Rt leg and the place I get my legs made me a special cover for the socket on my leg. It has, among other things, a C-124 plane on it. The cover was made especially for me and of my design.