Late intake on early engine?

[Henry Floored]

Guys I am toying with the idea of swapping an 8BA intake on my 81A Flatty in my 41 Coupe. Believe it or not my main reason is for service ability. (I can hardly reach the oil fill cap!)

I like the oil fill pipe in front. I haven't looked any farther than setting an early intake next to a late one. I don't see any glaring problems but I'm sure I could be missing something.

Have any of you done this or have any thoughts on the matter?

[scooder]

Henry,
I've done this swap for the same reason, mine is a 1942 1/2 ton. I'm 5'4" on a good day, you can see this is a lay on the fender job for me!
The different bits,
fuel pump, it's stand and push rod are different twix 8BA and 59A back.
Breathing (crank case) is different.
Stand pipe in the front of the valve chamber is different.
Intake gasket is different.
Oil pan is different.

What I did,
Swapped on a military oil pan that has the 59A and back triangle pan vent closed of. You can also just block that vent. I swapped as the military pan I had also had the bottom of the bell removable.

The casting in the crank case that "feeds" this vent, I drilled a couple of holes in this for crank case breathing.

The stand pipe that "feeds" this cast "breather casting" I swapped in an 8BA chap that's a bit longer to go through the intake gasket hole and fits the road draft drilling in the underside of the 8BA intake manifold.

Used an 8BA road draft tube assembly, but my engine also runs an 8BA style ignition, this road draft may interfere with an early ignition. Oddly I never checked this, but I was always gonna run the post hole ignition.

Used 8BA fuel pump and stand, made a longer pushrod that is 59A back diameter at the bottom end and 8BA size at the top.

The 8BA intake mounts the carb at an angle, so with an early car the carb is lent forward. You can make or have made a wedge adapter or machine the carb mounting flat or just ignore it. I was hesitant to ignore it so I asked around. Ol Ron said it's been done for years and runs fine, on that basis, ignoring it is ok, it's more of a visual thing.

The much, much easyer route is to get a Canadian 59A type intake manifold that swaps straight on no problem and has an oil fill up front next to the generator on the passenger side of the engine. The fill also has a kinda built in funnel. I have seen this without the oil fill, but they had a block of plate screwed in, under this is the drilling for the oil fill.

I went the 8BA way as I could also bolt on an 8CM inlet and play with different carbs, aswell as reach that stupid stock oil fill.
Martin.

[Brian]

One other thing...the carb will be canted forward on the 8BA.

[Henry Floored]

Guys thank you, thank you for the excellent information! I'm going to pop the intake off in the next couple days. Don't know if I'll be able to modify anything in the vent area since this engine is all together and running. That may preclude me from doing this on this go round.

Again thank you fellas for the great responses!

[Admiral]

Not to hijack this thread, but do the post-war, "Deep Breath" manifolds offer any performance benefit over earlier intakes? They appear to have greater runner volumes and gentler curves leading to the intake ports. Just curious... :-)

[scooder]

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Originally Posted by Admiral

Not to hijack this thread, but do the post-war, "Deep Breath" manifolds offer any performance benefit over earlier intakes? They appear to have greater runner volumes and gentler curves leading to the intake ports. Just curious... :-)

"deep breath" manifolds? Which ones are you talking about?
In my opinion the best stock intake for shape and size is a pre war type. This one was used post war on Ford Pilots. I believe it's original fit was on circa 1937- 38 in the US. It has bigger runners and ports than the earlyer ones, and a much, much better angle into the block ports than the later types with the divorced intake mounting, like the 59A and later. The late stuff has ridiculous right angles just above the port exit into the block, and at the top of the runners where it turns from a north south line to an up down angle.
The good one I'm talking about here has the look of an offenhauser aftermarket intake, in the area where the runners turn out towards the intake ports.
This manifold has an open heat hole in the carb mounting that needs dealing with to run a 94 family carb.
Unfortunately there ain't enough meat up top to bore this intake to use a bigger carb (late Merc four bolt, Rochester 2G, Big Y block 94 looking carb that has big throttles like the two previous carbs) it would need sleeving.
In my measuring only the four bolt Merc manifold has the meat to bore out, which you actually have to do even with the stock 885 Merc Holley, as this has bigger throttles than the manifold it was factory fitted on!
Martin.

[Ol' Ron]

Martin, you covered that very well, much better than I could. I use the Merc intake and don't bother with the Fuel pump pushrod.I run an electric pump. One thing I was unaware of was the difference in intake runners. During my racing days I used a 33/34 Camel back intake and carved out the inside and made my own runners with epoxy. Still have it. WE had to look stock.
Welcome to the "Putzer" club, we just keep putzing along.

[scooder]

Ron,
I'm at my happiest when putzing with early Ford stuff. Maybe if I could turn off the putzing bit of my brain I'd get stuff on the road much faster. Always seems to be a "this might work better if I swap this with that" then you change one thing and that barrel rolls into a bunch of stuff that's effected by swapping that one part!
In reality, I'll keep putzing along.
Martin.

[V8COOPMAN]

Here's that C11A-6520 Canadian intake with the oil-fill at the front, right. Obviously, a shortened fill pipe would be easy to fabricate. These show-up on The 'Bay with regularity. DD

[scooder]

Nice pics double d.
Incase anyone is wondering, the top intake with the oblong carb mounting, as opposed to the regular triangle one below. Is not for the four bolt Merc size ( or Rochester 2G) carbs, its the same size as regular 59A triangle stuff. So still won't bore out big enough without sleeving.
The oblong mounting was for an odd early "back draft" style carb that was used in some military applications. Looks kinda similar to the Merc back draft but has a ring of fasteners around its lid at the top, rather than the one piece encompassing cast shell of the 885 Merc carb.
Martin.

[scooder]

You can clearly see the stupid right angles in the runners in #3 and #6. And the fact that they kinda jut out of the north south section.
Not the smoothest flowing manifold you see.
Martin.