Loss of power,

[izze]

Okay fellas, I'm stumped. I started to drive my 28 coupe long distances. Today I drove from Santa Clarita to Camarillo. About 60 miles. I made it to my destination without any problems. Then on the way home I came to a stop light. I retarded the spark. And came to a full stop. The engine started to sputter, back fire a little. And I had no power when I tried to accelerate. This is the second time this has happened to me. Here is what I've done since the first time this happened.

New exhaust manifold.
New intake manifold.
Copper gaskets with gland rings.
New ignition cable.
New points and plates.
New condenser.
New distributor body, cap, rotor.
Swapped out carb with known good one.
Removed inline fuel filter.
New fuel line.
Set timing again, over and over.
Cleaned up wiring at junction box.

I should mention, I can now only get the engine to run with the spark lever fully advanced. When I retard the spark, it dies.

I thought I had this fixed. But I'm writing this thread while in the cab of the tow truck. So no, I did not fix it.

Am I burning up condensers? Should I try modern points?

[Ruth]

What spark plugs are you running? May have fouled a sparkler or two?

[izze]

Champion plugs. I pulled #1 plug on the side of the road. It was light Grey color. No moisture.

I'll pull the others when I get home

[izze]

The plugs

[Big hammer]

Use a parts box lid, not the shiny side, double over the strip of box lid, swipe through the points until the lid is not black from the points. Now check the points gap, .018 - .022

[Gary WA]

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Wire in dizzy shorting out!

[1crosscut]

Sounds like your flexible wire under the plate in the distributor is grounding out when your retarding the spark. Often the "flag" end of the wire isn't bent correctly and will cause problems.

[izze]

I bent the wire connector 90 degrees when attaching it to the upper plate.

I'll do the box gap cleaning tip tomorrow.

Dizzy is in reference to the distributor rotor, correct?

[old31]

This sounds like a carb issue to me. Take the carb out and give it a good cleaning, check the float for a leak. The float could have fuel in it.

[nkaminar]

Re check the timing. The distributor cam may have slipped. Is there the washer under the cam and is the screw holding it from turning? Otherwise, check for shorting as Gary and Crosscut are suggesting. Dizzy is short for distributor.

[ronn]

This sounds like a carb issue to me. Take the carb out and give it a good cleaning, check the float for a leak. The float could have fuel in it.



swap the carb out and see if that is the issue- if not, back to electrics.

[Mike1291]

I will also cast my vote for the distributor. I had a similar running issue with mine. I tried to fix mine and even had it rebuilt several times and I could never get it to work right. Ended up buying a new one and no issues with ignition since. I don't know if the casing of the distributor can go bad but it very well could be.

Try swapping yours with a new or known good one and see if that helps

[1crosscut]

With the distributor fully retarded check for spark.

[nkaminar]

The clear distributor cap sold by the vendors is a good way to check for spark on all the cylinders, You can make a cutaway cap by cutting out a strip in the middle that includes the places where the clips attach and the wire from the distributor is inserted. The other parts are removed so that you can view the sparks at the terminals when the engine is running.

[izze]

I swapped out the carb yesterday already when I started my drive. I brought a known good carb with me.

The engine would maintain a fast idle, even with the spark retarded. I could not get the engine to slow down when coming to a stop. I swapped out the carb. Then the idle speed normalized. And she drive great for 60 miles.

I'll mention that this issue arose after I reached my destination. The car sat for about 45 minuets before starting my return trip home. We drove for about 20 minuets before hitting the first stop light. That's when I experienced this issue (again). The car did not sound right during those 20 minuets. But I was not sure if I was being paranoid.

nkaminar, the lock washer goes under the can screw correct? Not under the cam itself?

[Rob Doe]

I assume your retard of the spark at the stop light was only a notch or two, and the one or two notches were because you had been going fast enough to add an extra notch or two of advance at higher rpms. Is this correct?

If your car began to misfire when adjusting the spark control, and it now consistently refuses to run at all with the spark retarded, but it wlll run if the spark control is advanced, check the ammeter. Is it showing a small - neg draw when the ignition key is 'on'?

An unintended ground between the + pos post of the coil and the distributor points will not blow the safety fuse, but does prevent proper functioning of the primary and secondary ignition circuits.

If your ignition is wired according to the November, 1929 service bulletin, then your ammeter should reflect a slight - neg discharge (flicker) as the ig points open and close when the starter is turning the engine over. You can check this by removing the terminal box cover and observing where the black wire to the - neg post of the coil is sourced. It should be sourced at the yellow / black stripe side (driver side / left side of an American car)

If your ignition is wired according to the bulletin, and you do not see the negative flicker of the ammeter when cranking, and do not have a small steady discharge as described above, then the primary ignition circuit may have an open somewhere between the terminal box post and the distributor points. The previous sentence assumes the starter cranks, and the lights, horn or other accessories are working.

Beware, if you have left the key on for too long at any time during your repairs, then the new coil and / or condenser may be damaged.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by izze

I'll mention that this issue arose after I reached my destination. The car sat for about 45 minuets before starting my return trip home. We drove for about 20 minuets before hitting the first stop light. That's when I experienced this issue (again). The car did not sound right during those 20 minuets.

When you reached your destination, did you shut off your gas valve? I always shut off my gas valve and run the carb dry when I park after a run.

I have experience similar what you describe if I don't. I think the gas in the carb just sits there and heat soaks/boils cause a flooded engine and fouled plugs.

[katy]

Your picture shows that your spark plugs are Champion W16Y, you may need a hotter spark plug, try Champion W18 plugs.

[Flathead]

Distributor well grounded to block, lock bolt and nut tight? Engine, frame and battery all grounded together? The advance lever can act as a ground for distributor.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by katy

Your picture shows that your spark plugs are Champion W16Y, you may need a hotter spark plug, try Champion W18 plugs.

I agree. Altho the chart shows the W-16Y is hotter, my car runs much cleaner with the W-18s. The chart is a little confusing because it also states a W-16Y is between an W-18 and W-14?

[nkaminar]

Yes, sorry, lock washer goes under the screw, not the cam.

[izze]

I spent the evening going through the engine. A multi point inspection if you will. I found that there are a couple of scratches in the distributor cam that wore down the pad on the breaker arm and eliminated the point gap. After I set the point gap again, the engine fired up and ran normal. I've got a new cam ordered.

I just assumed to not check the points as I replaced them several days ago. This also explains why the problem went away after replacing the points. Live and learn. Thanks for all the help guys.

[Big hammer]

A little lub on the cam goes a long way, the rub strip will wear down for several 100 miles until it wears in , it’s not uncommon to adjust the points for about 1000 miles.

[nkaminar]

A common trick is to polish the cam.

[Rob Doe]

Izze,

If you are running the stock distributor set up, points, upper and lower plates, the rub block on the stock points gave me fits when we first got our car and started driving it daily. I had to, not only reset the gap but I had to learn how to look down from above and judge how much the rub block / cam follower had worn down.

When the follower is worn enough, apparently the points arm shorts to the cam intermittently. I would describe the symptom as a 'stumble' or a 'buck'. I had to check the points every couple hundred miles religiously. On one occasion, the points were down under .010 and the engine flat died. It was near 100 degrees and not a cloud in the sky. Of course that was the first ride for my daughter!

I did not want to install the modern plates, I wanted the "Model A Experience", but I'd had enough. I put Nurex, modern plates, points and condenser in. After 13,000 miles the condenser failed while the car was apart for a drive train restoration just recently.

There was very little detailed info as to 'how' to polish the distributor cam when I was having troubles. My cam is still not polished, but I do put Cam Lube on it every 500 miles or so. The Nurex rub block / cam follower did not wear as did the stock points set.

I have some Brasso and an old distributor cam shaft in my used parts that I may use to polish the cam someday. I plan to put the cam on the old shaft and put it into my 5/8" capable drill press. I'll use small buffing wheels on a Dremel and the Brasso. I'll measure the lobes to be sure they are within a .001 when finished.

Glad you found the issue.

[izze]

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I could not decide on original points, or modern. I read plenty of posts about original points working as expected. And no need for modern unless the condenser keeps burning up. I may buy a set of modern points to keep on hand. But for now, I ordered a new cam and distributor lube. Now that I am driving more often, and on longer trips. I'll be sure to keep an eye on it and be diligent with the maintenance.

[Rob Doe]

We were driving about 800 miles a month when we first got the car. And we haven't slowed down much. The individuals who report few issues with stock point sets may not be driving their cars daily. It's miles driven and the quality of the materials that wears the cam follower down. One post suggested that the material may reach a melting point on occasion. That seemed to match our experience.

[nkaminar]

In the mid 60's I drove my coupe all over California and never had any ignition issues. It had the original points, cam, and condensor from the Ford factory. If only the US Post Office would work like a time machine and you could write the Ford dealers for parts.

[katy]

Some of the replacement cams are not as smooth/slick as they should be, and wear down the rubbing block prematurely. I polished a cam by spinning it in the lathe and using crocus cloth. No lathe? A drill press or hand drill would work.
As suggested, some lube on the installed cam is a good idea and was recommended by Ford.