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06-06-2021, 08:40 AM | #1 |
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Starting the Model A with a crank
I have never done this with my Model A. I do own a 1914 Model T that must be hand cranked but I make sure that the timing is past TDC at the moment of spark. Starting my Model T is easy and a safe experience.
Can anyone comment on the Model A after it is timed by the book how the crank feels with spark fully retarded. Does the normal timing adjustment get the spark past TDC so that there is no sudden engine bucking or worse? If you know you would like to occasionally use the crank, to be super safe, is there any benefit to time the car with the spark level down 1 or 2 clicks so that you are absolutely positive you are past TDC with the spark lever fully up? Ed |
06-06-2021, 09:13 AM | #2 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
I've had to start my A twice with the crank: once due to a broken bendix, the next because of a weak battery. The timing was set per the book- spark occurs right at TDC when fully retarded. Both times it fired off on one upward pull of the crank with no kick back.
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06-06-2021, 09:45 AM | #3 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
Ed, don’t wrap your thumb around the crank, and pull it out after the first pull. You might also want to run an wire forward from your carb if you want to choke it. That’s what the hole in your choke arm is for. You probably already know this from cranking your T.
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06-06-2021, 09:55 AM | #4 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
The only possible benefit is it may make one feel better.
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06-06-2021, 10:05 AM | #5 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
Many years ago I hand started my A with a loose motor and the timing spot on. Today with a fresh motor and HC head I wouldn't try it, I would fix my issues with the electric starter ! Back when I was in high school my A wouldn't start asked for help to push start it, the 2-3 guys got it started within 3 feet of pushing, they thought they would have to push me for blocks !
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06-06-2021, 11:04 AM | #6 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
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06-06-2021, 11:24 AM | #7 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
You don't have to pull quickly, just pull past TDC and it should start. I have seen people crank a Model T using their foot by pushing down. Not sure I would do that for fear of being launched.
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. |
06-06-2021, 11:34 AM | #8 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
I knew a guy with a Royal Enfield motorcycle that got launched a few times pushing down on the starter pedal!
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06-06-2021, 12:45 PM | #9 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
I shattered a wrist cranking a Farmal when I was 12 and got almost launched a couple times kicking a motorbike with manual advance.
Engines don't like to kick back if the base timing is set ATDC or/to slightly before TDC. As mentioned, keep that thumb out of the way. Right now the humidity is up and the barometer is on the move, the wrist hurts. |
06-06-2021, 01:13 PM | #10 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
There is a you tube near this post. Please do not use the crank to start in that manner.
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06-06-2021, 01:36 PM | #11 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
Meanwhile, the 1932-34 Model B engine with an initial timing set at 19 degrees BTDC came with a hand crank and instructions for using it to start the engine. I have been told by others that they were able to crank start the B-engine without kickback.
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06-06-2021, 05:06 PM | #12 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
I hand cranked my Model A for 2 years in the 1960's when I was in high school...no money for a rebuilt starter.
It fired off every time, usually on the first pull, rain or shine. Biggest tip is keeping your thumb on the same side as your fingers...do not wrap it around the crank handle. Sometimes a curious few would ask me what I was doing and were just amazed that I could start the car that way. worked for me. |
06-06-2021, 05:34 PM | #13 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
re; Big Hammer's story on push starting. In Jr. college I built a 3/8x3/8 flathead V8. I borrowed a friends A roadster on '32 rails and put my engine in it. It would never start by the starter, battery or starter problems? Who knows. So I had to push start it at all times. Being 6'2" tall, I couldn't get in the car quick enough while pushing it myself to get it started, but found that by pumping the throttle once, turning on the ignition switch ( house wall-switch ) pushing it a few feet, reaching in and jamming it into high gear and then right back to neutral, it was running! Worked every time!
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06-06-2021, 06:14 PM | #14 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
I used to do repairs to a hand crank 2 ton caterpillar and some of the larger ones started with a hand crank. I have started my car with the hand crank after retarding the timing. I owned a 63 sporster with a joe hunt mag I run that for about 9 years you had to commit to the kick lever. I had a 93 inch kick start shovelhead that was fun to kick. The worse ones were 441 bsa victors you had to know how to start them or look out they would throw your foot of the kicker. I had a 850 norton commando and you had to address that kicker just right.
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06-06-2021, 06:57 PM | #15 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
Numerous times when the engine is warm, I have turned the pop-out on and it starts by itself without using the starter. How is that for top dead center??
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06-07-2021, 10:30 AM | #16 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
Dale G., Model T owners call that a "free start"! Ed
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06-07-2021, 05:27 PM | #17 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
My uncle (whom I got my A from) used to restore antique tractors. He finished a large Case that required hand cranking. Just watching him do that was always so impressive.
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06-07-2021, 06:36 PM | #18 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
I watched my friend hand crank his two cylinder John Deere by turning the flywheel. There are two petcocks about an inch from TDC that relieve the pressure. So the compression is reduced to only the last inch of the compression stroke. The petcocks are not large enough to significantly reduce the power stroke or the next compression stroke when the engine starts. After it started he closed the petcocks.
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. |
06-07-2021, 09:07 PM | #19 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
Ez trick is to attach a piece of wire to the choke arm, on the carb, if so equipped and thread it out thru the radiator, form a finger loop in it. Then you can choke it and crank it without moving from the front. Makes a good conversation piece for curious onlookers.
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06-08-2021, 01:29 AM | #20 |
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Re: Starting the Model A with a crank
We had a '41 John Deere Model A in the 80's, it didn't have a battery or starter motor. The only way to start it was that big aZZ flywheel. If it was hot and using gas or drip it was no trouble. If you were running kero or diesel you had to crank like hell as soon as it died, or drain the carb. But it sure beat using a pair of mules.
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