Do I have an 8BA? or..

[Rocket455]

I'm a little confused, guys. I'm relatively new to this Ford Flathead stuff. I have a 1950 Coupe with the original engine rebuilt and getting ready to go back in. I'm thinking about either a T5 or C4/C6 adapter. I want to make sure that I get the right thing.




On the Speedway website they have an adapter for T5 but it fits "1932-48 Ford or 1939-50 Mercury engines." Which is not what I have.


Then the C4/C6 adapter states " 1949-1953 Ford 8BA and 8CM Mercury Flathead V8 engines."


So do I have an 8BA? How can I tell for sure? Because also Wikipedia says the 8BA came out in 49. But then in 1950 it mentions an OBA. Is that a type error in Wikipedia? Because not much specifies that it fits an OBA. They mostly specify 8BA.







Is there a way to get the T5 adapter to work on my engine? Whatever I actually have. Why would it work on a 50 Merc but not mine? But the C4/C6 adapter will work on both?


Sorry for having so many words.

[JSeery]

It should have an 8ba. One of the big difference is in the bellhousing area of the block. The 59a block has half of the bellhousing cast into the block. An 8ba does not. Might spend some time looking around VanPelt's site, lot of information and diagrams there.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Rocket455

I'm a little confused, guys. I'm relatively new to this Ford Flathead stuff. I have a 1950 Coupe with the original engine rebuilt and getting ready to go back in. I'm thinking about either a T5 or C4/C6 adapter. I want to make sure that I get the right thing.




On the Speedway website they have an adapter for T5 but it fits "1932-48 Ford or 1939-50 Mercury engines." Which is not what I have.


Then the C4/C6 adapter states " 1949-1953 Ford 8BA and 8CM Mercury Flathead V8 engines."


So do I have an 8BA? How can I tell for sure? Because also Wikipedia says the 8BA came out in 49. But then in 1950 it mentions an OBA. Is that a type error in Wikipedia? Because not much specifies that it fits an OBA. They mostly specify 8BA.







Is there a way to get the T5 adapter to work on my engine? Whatever I actually have. Why would it work on a 50 Merc but not mine? But the C4/C6 adapter will work on both?


Sorry for having so many words.

Hey Rocket.....A '50 Ford technically has an "0BA" engine in it, but for all practical purposes, it is identical to (and most will refer to it as) an "8BA"-type engine. And just so that YOU're clear, "8CM"-type Mercury engines are very similar to 8BA Ford engines, but most-importantly, the rear of the two blocks are IDENTICAL as far as any transmission adapters are concerned.


I'm only going to comment on T5 adapters.....You DON'T REALLY want a dorky automatic in that COOL car, do ya?


Yes, the Speedway adapter does say '32-'48 Ford and '39-'50 Merc engines, but....…...the rest of the story is that THAT Speedway adapter WILL work with your '50 "0BA" engine WHEN you first bolt either a cast iron '48-'52 Ford truck half-bellhousing (the dark one below) or a '49-EARLY '51 Merc pressed-steel half-bellhousing (the red one below) to your '50 Ford block (which now replicates the bolt pattern on the back of a '32-'48 block), and THEN bolt the Speedway adapter to it. Guys have been doing it this way for 15-20 years now. The third picture below shows an 8BA-type block with the cast-iron half-bell bolted to it, and then a Speedway-type adapter bolted to the cast bell, and finally a T5 bolted to the Speedway-type adapter....easy-peasy!










This is a relatively easy swap, and several of us here can help walk you through it. Be cautious when looking for a T5 trans, as there are different variants of T5s, and some are better suited than others, bolt-pattern-wise AND internal gear ratio-wise. Myself or JSeery can help you make an informed choice. Either of the two half-bellhousings above can be found used quite regularly in the FordBarn "SWAP" section and on eBay. Let us know how you're proceeding.....hope this helps! DD




…...

[Ol' Ron]

You can also buy an adapter to mount the T-5 to the 49.53 Ford 8BA style bellhousing depending on the style T-5 you have aand this can be confusing because the chevy T-5 changed it's bolt pattern to Ford style in the early 90's. For the ford pattern you can get am adapter for 160 bucks. SSSOOO I haven't solved your problem, have I??

[51504bat]

I'm only going to comment on T5 adapters.....You DON'T REALLY want a dorky automatic in that COOL car, do ya?
…...[/QUOTE]


When I was in HS I spent considerable time and effort to change my '65 Falcon 2 dr. wagon from an automatic from to a stick. My mom for the life of her couldn't understand why. That said I'm a fan of a manual trans BUT for some life gets in the way. The 3 speed trans in my '39 p/u came from an older guy's '39 convertible that he replaced with a C4. He was still perfectly capable of driving but his left leg wasn't up to working the clutch for more than a short drive. So for him it was an automatic or sell a beautiful car that he had had for ever. Point is that sometimes an automatic isn't a bad thing. One more thing, I'm in the process of putting a 302 and AOD combination in my '54 Ranch Wagon that had a 3 speed. Reason, so my wife can drive it if need be. She wears leg braces and a stick is no longer an option for her. JMHO

[19Fordy]

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For what it's worth, I have used the 49-51 Mercury stamped steel bellhousing and starter plate on both a 1950 Merc block and a 1953 Ford 8BA and 8RT engine block to adapt the blocks to a 40 transmission. What V8 says is accurate.

[Rocket455]

V8, thanks for the very detailed response. It explains a lot. I appreciate you all. I’m going to mull it over some more. I do t have to make a decision right now. But I’m think about an AOD actually. I like the idea of my wife being able to drive if need be. And also a stick is fun but it’s kind of a pain in the ass sometimes.

[tubman]

From what I know, a C4 is an easy match for a flathead. A C6 or AOD not so much. I don't know of any adapters, and they absorb more horsepower from the system.

[rotorwrench]

The first 8BA came out in 1948 but was only used in the new Bonus built trucks that year. All other flathead blocks from 1949 through the end of production are based on the 8BA and are part of that family. 8CM only relates to the first 2.2 years of the Mercury 255 engine but even it still has the same basic block but just a different crankshaft & pistons.

There is a lot of info on this board for the 8BA family. I think the AOD would be a good choice for the flathead V8. Since it is throttle cable controlled, you won't have to worry about the vacuum modulator plus you get the advantage of an overdrive. C4s are better size wise and work well with the right rear axle gearing.

[19Fordy]

Rocket455: A friend of mine used the C-4 automatic kit set up in his 40 Ford behind his flatty. It has worked fine for many years. He had to convert to open driveline. Don't know what vehicle you are dealing with but make sure of all the alterations you will need to make.
Good luck.

[JSeery]

I love AODs, but they are a wide transmission and require a lot of frame modifications. Also the TV cable MUST be installed and working correctly, they self destruct in short order without it.

[flatford8]

Either way your looking at trans cross member and possibly trans-hump floor pan modifications. I’m currently putting a T5 in a ‘51. The cross member is done, now I’m deciding on if and how much to change the floor tunnel........Good Luck with your project...Mark

[JSeery]

Well, not if you go with V8coopman's setup. And even with the normal T5 tail shaft it is a lot less modification than an AOD. But my experience is with earlier frames, the later ones my be a totally different issue!

[flatford8]

It’s a ‘50....it’s all ready open drive.... why would he change it?.... Mark
This is what I ran into in my ‘51.

[JSeery]

Ya, was just referring to the width through the crossmember area. But it is really totally irrelevant anyway because the frame differences. I have never worked on a shoebox era car, so my frame of reference is early frames. But still need to keep in mind that the AOD is a wide transmission, just need to plan for it.

[Rocket455]

Yeah, it’s a ‘50. So I don’t have that big ‘X’ type thing in the middle of the frame. I’m ok with moving the existing crossMember or getting a new one. I might be ok with beating the floor a little. I really don’t want to have to cut and weld.

Will the AOD suck up more power than the C4?
This engine is almost bone stock. I don’t plan on driving this car cross country or to work everyday. Just fun for the family. I may not absolutely need the OD. But this car did have original overdrive.

[JSeery]

You can buy kits to install the C4, might be a big advantage. I think the AOD will take a lot of custom work, but not totally sure. Don't think the OD will help you much unless you intend to do highway driving.

[19Fordy]

Sorry, I forgot he had a 50 Ford.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Rocket455

Yeah, it’s a ‘50. So I don’t have that big ‘X’ type thing in the middle of the frame. I’m ok with moving the existing crossMember or getting a new one. I might be ok with beating the floor a little. I really don’t want to have to cut and weld.

Will the AOD suck up more power than the C4?
This engine is almost bone stock. I don’t plan on driving this car cross country or to work everyday. Just fun for the family. I may not absolutely need the OD. But this car did have original overdrive.

"Will the AOD suck up more power than the C4?" No! If anything somewhat less. Both run about the same line pressure so the power needed to drive the front pump will be the same. Normal slippage in the torque converter will absorb some power and dissipate it in the form of heat. (When you lock the brakes and stomp the gas, the converter is absorbing all the power and making lots of heat!) But an AOD locks the torque converter in 4th gear so no power is lost in the converter. Thus an AOD sucks up less power than a C4. Plus the AOD partially locks in 3rd gear so again, less power loss.

[flatford8]

You also may need to look into rear gear ratios. When Ford put automatics starting in ‘51, in shoebox cars, I’m pretty certain the rear ratio was different. Speedway sells a auto trans kit like Jseery mentions above but I’m not sure what trans it comes with.
I called Shoebox-Central when I needed a different trans cross-member, but I think I remember him saying all the swaps they do are for automatics, not T5. Maybe start with contacting them.....shoebox-central.com....good people to deal with.......Mark

[51504bat]

Originally Posted by flatford8

You also may need to look into rear gear ratios. When Ford put automatics starting in ‘51, in shoebox cars, I’m pretty certain the rear ratio was different. Speedway sells a auto trans kit like Jseery mentions above but I’m not sure what trans it comes with.
I called Shoebox-Central when I needed a different trans cross-member, but I think I remember him saying all the swaps they do are for automatics, not T5. Maybe start with contacting them.....shoebox-central.com....good people to deal with.......Mark

I've had good experiences with Shoe Box Central as well. Worth a call, IMO.

[rotorwrench]

The TV cable is easy to set up. The kit I saw for the AOD/8BA even comes with a pressure gauge for set up but for the price they should. The kits aren't cheap.

[Ol' Ron]

Everytime I see the T-5 installation in the thirty five, I have a fond admeration for Coopman for the engineering and manufacturing of the components of this system. Done by a guy that had a better idea. I worked for over 50 years in the Manufacturing of Helicopters. THe first CNC 5 axis machines, that bult th CH53 (Jolly Green) after that I worked in the Machine tool industry ( Bullards) adapting Tape controld to Vertical Boring machines. I used the term CNC, unfortunately, that hadn't been invented at that time and it all had to be done by tape. It's nice to know we have people like coopman here thinking outsife the box.
Gramps

[Ol' Ron]

Btt

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The TV cable is easy to set up. The kit I saw for the AOD/8BA even comes with a pressure gauge for set up but for the price they should. The kits aren't cheap.

Easy to setup but disastrous if it is not there or not correct.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Everytime I see the T-5 installation in the thirty five, I have a fond admeration for Coopman for the engineering and manufacturing of the components of this system. Done by a guy that had a better idea. I worked for over 50 years in the Manufacturing of Helicopters. THe first CNC 5 axis machines, that bult th CH53 (Jolly Green) after that I worked in the Machine tool industry ( Bullards) adapting Tape controld to Vertical Boring machines. I used the term CNC, unfortunately, that hadn't been invented at that time and it all had to be done by tape. It's nice to know we have people like coopman here thinking outsife the box.
Gramps

Hey Ron...I surely do appreciate the kind words, but let's not forget Heard, the owner of that slick T5, as he's the guy that actually got his hands dirty and physically made that all happen. I just pointed a lot and shot my mouth off a bunch, as usual! It did turn-out kind'a slick though, huh? Thanks again, Gramps! DD

[Ol' Ron]

I didn't know that. It took allot of thought to come up with the finished product. I never worked much with the stock ford running gear. When I got out of the service in 56, Old 324 and chevy 383 engines were boss on the street. they dropped into a 40;50's car like they were made for them. Hurst mad a kit for the Olds, everybody made the kit for the chevy. It didn't take long before we knew that the stock ford trans and rears wern't up to the task of handling the power . Haven't used any since.
AS good as that T-5 conversion is made, the rear won't take it.
But. it's a beauty!