Overhauled steering gear is Binding Help.....

[henryford30]

Hello specialists
I have overhauled the steering gear on my 30 Coupe.
The steering worm, the 2 tooth steering upper race, the steering sector and all bearings were replaced.
I strictly followed the adjustment instructions and made the adjustments step by step. The steering worked perfectly on the workbench.
But when I installed the steering column and put the load of the Model A on the wheels, I could only turn the steering wheel with a metallic creaking noise.
I then tried to optimize the settings (all 4 options) in the installed state, which unfortunately did not lead to success.
As soon as I take the weight off the front wheels, the steering works perfectly without sluggishness and noise (binding).
The steering column is not braced or installed crooked and the 2-tooth sector gear has no contact with the hole in the frame where the shaft goes through.

What else could I try now, I have spent a lot of money and even more time and unfortunately the result is not acceptable.
Thank you very much for your help !!!
Greetings from cold Munich Germany

[Marshall V. Daut]

Ensure that the tie rod is not rubbing against the tops of the radius rods (wishbone). Often times the steering arms in the spindles get bent over the years, lowering the tie rod. It can then interfere with the radius rods and cause a metallic scraping noise and hard steering. Also make sure the tie rod is not bent, as so many are. It must be dead straight so that it doesn't come into any contact with other metal parts during its left and right travel.
Let us know after an inspection if we can cross that off the list of suspects.
Marshall
P.S. I sold my 1928 Roadster in Munich in August of 1975 before returning to the States. I had advertised its sale in the magazine "Automobil Chronik". The car went south to Traunstein, where it remained for many years. 'Lost track of it since the 1990's, though. Do you know the car???

[Marshall V. Daut]

By the way, a rubbing tie rod can also be caused by a weak or sagging front spring that allows the front axle to tip forward or backward. Jack up the front end and then slowly release the jack's pressure while you watch the front axle. It should not appreciably lean one way or the other as the wheels contact the ground. If it does, the spring may be bad, the shackles loose, or the rear wishbone ball mounting under the bellhousing has been compromised.
If the tie rod and drag link end plugs are screwed in too tight because the steering balls are worn egg-shaped, that will also cause a binding as the steering wheel goes through its spinning arc. If you cannot slightly rotate the drag link or tie rod with vise grips, the end plugs are too tight. Back them off one or two full turns and try turning the steering wheel again to check for noise and binding.
Marshall

[Bob C]

Is the car hard to steer when driving?

[rotorwrench]

With load on the front end, the car really needs forward movement to ease the steering. If it feels "notchy" or has a catch spot in the front wheel centered position then it may not have enough slack in that position. The centered position is the only gear location that the Gemmer steering gears are set to zero play. Once it is moved off center either way, the play begins to increase. If zero play is set too tight then it will have a built in catch spot.

[airjam]

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What is the condition of the thrust bearings sitting on top of the King pin? Are they carrying the load of the weight of the front of the car. Adjust with shims if needed.

[Marshall V. Daut]

And don't judge steering stiffness by turning the steering wheel if the car isn't moving or jacked up. No non-power steering car will give you an accurate feel when checked that way. ONLY test for steering stiffness with the front wheels off the ground or while moving. When rebuilt and adjusted properly, the Model A two-tooth steering design is efficient and relatively easy to steer, considering we are not talking about modern technology. You shouldn't need "Armstrong Steering" strength to enjoy driving your Model A.
Marshall

[henryford30]

Hello specialists, thank you very much for all your tips!


@ Marshall
I have checked everything, the track rod is free.
I'll loosen the tie rod end plugs a bit and see if it gets better.
I'll test things again with a friend and then let you know.
Unfortunately I don't know your 28' Roadster, you really don't see these vehicles here very often.


@Bob C Even when steering while driving, the steering wheel is very difficult to turn in certain positions and this metallic creaking noise is also there. Something feels too tight.

@Airjam The thrust bearings are new, that can't actually be it. I'll check everything again.

Thank you for your help, I'll get in touch as soon as I know more

Joe

[Big hammer]

What are you using for lubricant ? I tried 00 corn head grease and then ended up rebuilding my two tooth gear box, I’ll only use 600w from the model A suppliers !

[Marshall V. Daut]

You are dealing with two steering problems, possibly related, possibly not: (1) hard steering when the wheels are on the ground; (2) a metallic scraping noise when turning the wheels. The second problem should be the easier of the two to track down. While a friend turns the steering wheel, lie or kneel down under the front axle. Watch and LISTEN as the wheels turn on the ground. Have your accomplice continue turning the steering wheel from lock-to-lock while you move around under car to pinpoint where the scraping noise is coming from. Once you have located it, take care of that first, either by loosening, lubing or moving the offending part (s). Once the noise has been located and eliminated, see if that solves the hard steering problem.
If not, there are only so many things that can cause hard steering. You have stated that the steering works fine and smoothly when the wheels are off the ground. Assuming that is correct and you are using a steering LUBE and not grease inside the box, we can eliminate the steering box itself. You wrote that the steering sector is not rubbing on the hole in the frame rail, a very common problem when the mounting holes have been elongated or the incorrect bolts were installed to secure the steering box to the frame. You have also eliminated a bent or rubbing tie rod across the radius rod arms. After you have loosened the tie rod and drag line end plugs, see if that affects the noise and steering ease. It may be that the end plugs are actually too loose, causing the steering balls to click against the plugs when the wheels are turned. If that's the case, loosening them more will not correct hard steering. If you can lift the tie rod and drag link off the steering balls and pitman arm ball, inspect the balls themselves to ensure they are round, not egg-shaped. Oftentimes in order to reduce shimmying caused by egg-shaped steering balls, owners will over-tighten the end plugs, which may or may not reduce shimmying, but will definitely make steering harder.
If the steering is easier after loosening the end plugs, but the noise still persists, check other areas, such as a loose backing plates, a loose radius rod ball, loose wheel bearings and loose spindle arms. Are the steering box mounting bolts too long so that the ends are rubbing against the pitman arm? The arm might not rub against the bolts while the front end is off the ground, but will rub when the weight of the car on the ground changes the geometry and proximity of the steering parts. Are the lug nuts tight and the wheels secured firmly against the brake drums? If the lug nut holes are worn deeply into the wheel, the nuts will not be able to secure the wheel against the drum. For a while, defective lug nuts were being sold with the wrong angle on the seat. They could not tighten the wheel to the drum. A loose wheel will make noise, too. Jack the front end up and wiggle each wheel to check for that condition, as well as for loose bearings or backing plates. Tire pressure should be 32-36 psi. Low tire pressures will make steering difficult, too.
Let us know if these suggestions help.
Marshall

[henryford30]

@ Big Hammer


I have filled in a transmission fluid, but will fill in the correct 600w transmission fluid at the weekend.


@Marshall



Thank you very much for your comprehensive description of possible sources of error. I'll go through all the options with a friend over the weekend and hopefully be able to report something positive on Monday.
I wish you all a great weekend


Joe

[henryford30]

Hello to the specialists
I have now completed my repair of the steering gear. Apparently I had 2 faults with my steering gear. The old plain bearing of the output shaft was very rough, apparently the plain bearing had been machined with a hand reamer before, and was also worn down too far.
The second fault came from myself, apparently the tires were losing air, because I only had 17 PSI tire pressure.
I installed a new sector housing with needle roller bearings and filled in the correct oil.
What can I say, now I have no problems steering when stationary, no more binding or metallic noises. The steering is much easier.
I'm already looking forward to the first ride in spring, but first the snow has to melt away.
Many thanks to all of you for your tips, it has helped me a lot !!!

Best regards

Joe

[Two-Gun Bob]

Joe,

Thanks for the update— I was wondering what you had found out and lots of times people forget to share a follow-up to let us know how something works out.

[Marshall V. Daut]

One final thing to check, Joe: Ensure that the toe-in (front end alignment) is within specifications. If the adjustment has too much toe-out, that will contribute to hard steering. If too much toe-in, the car will act squirrely and dart all over the road. You've come this far tracking down steering problems. Finish up by making sure the front end alignment is correct: 1/32" - 3/32" toe-IN. Check repair manuals how to adjust the toe-in or watch videos on-line. You'd be surprised how much difference in steering and driving enjoyment can be felt just by changing the front end alignment!
Marshall

[katy]

Front end alignment involves more than toe-in. That said, toe-in is critical and is the one thing the average Model A-er can check and correct.