The Ford Barn

mach0415 · 08-25-2012, 07:11 PM

Hello. As we were mounting the freshly rebuilt Zenith 1 to the intake, it was noted that the upper body flange to intake mounting holes have been drilled out. Chalk it up to the fact that this was overlooked upon my rebuilding it.

So, the questions:

1.) Do we simply mount it with nuts and bolts (originally mounted with bolts that threaded into the carb body)? Its to be a driver. We'll worry about judging standards at some point on that.

2.) Do we weld them shut, drill and retap?

3.) Do we not waste our time and just get another good, used upper body?

4.) Is this a common issue found over the years as people have over/under torqued and stripped out?

Input is appreciated

Mark in NC

MAG · 08-25-2012, 07:14 PM

Thought about using a Heli-Coil?

Mitch//pa · 08-25-2012, 07:17 PM

If the holes were not drilled out to large maybe it will accept a 5/16th helicoil. that would be the way i would try to go. would also loktite the helicoils in

Special Coupe Frank · 08-25-2012, 08:35 PM

I've had this happen on ag equipment over the years... probably the easiest thing to do if you're not worried about fine-point judging, is to use a slightly longer bolt and and nut.

You might have to use a thin jam-nut...

Or the heli-coiol

bogdonj · 08-25-2012, 08:42 PM

Helicoil

mach0415 · 08-26-2012, 06:09 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Helicoil crossed my mind, but the hole is waaay too big for stock bolts. Slightly longer bolts with nuts is the way to go for now, I think.

1931 flamingo · 08-26-2012, 08:50 AM

Find another top and just transfer the bottom over??
Paul in CT

BillLee/Chandler, TX · 08-26-2012, 09:05 AM

Take a look at the TechTopics on my club's website. There is an article on putting helicoils in a couple of carbs. Pictures and some specifications, etc.

http://www.CedarCreekAs.org and then the TechTopics link

Really an easy fix.

Ray in La Mesa · 08-26-2012, 09:34 AM

You could tap the larger holes to whatever size they will be ,screw in a bolt and lock it with bearing lock, JB Weld or the high strength Locktite. Then cut the bolt off flush and redrill it to standard size.

Mike V. Florida · 08-26-2012, 09:46 AM

Nut and bolt until you get another casting.

Elcastor · 08-26-2012, 10:20 AM

Use a longer bolt with a nut and go have fun driving it. Later you can probably find another intake manifold and fix it right.

Logan · 08-26-2012, 10:55 AM

Just nut and bolt it. No one will notice, and it's not for judging so who cares.

Bob C · 08-26-2012, 12:42 PM

If the hole is to big for a Helicoil you could use something like the insert
in this link, takes a 1/2"-13 hole. http://www.mcmaster.com/#thread-repair-inserts/=j0p3j4

Bob

Brentwood Bob · 08-26-2012, 01:32 PM

Time sert is a possibility, but expensive. Cheaper to get another top casting I would think. Bob

Brentwood Bob · 08-26-2012, 01:58 PM

after looking at bill lee's club site heli coil looks do able. bob

redmodelt · 08-26-2012, 02:16 PM

Because of broken ears, striped out bolt holes for the big bolt etc, there are a lot more good bottoms then tops.

Napa Skip · 08-26-2012, 08:44 PM

I would try the least invasive approach first, i.e., the nut and bolt scenario recommended by several F/B's above. However, looking at the three Zenith 1's I have (one in service and two bench spares) I see only about 1/8" clearance under the forward ear of the carburetor upper body. Thus, absent filing off the underside of this ear, which I would not recommend, you would only get about 1/8 x 18 = 2-1/4 thread engagement on a 1/8"-thick "jamb" nut and 5/16-18 bolt. This might provide marginal bolting force but might be worth a try before going the Heli-coil route. Or, perhaps your Zenith 1 has more clearance under the forward ear.

Cory Moffat · 08-27-2012, 01:00 AM

I got a bucket O old carbs in the garage. I got a top I could send you. Its old and rusty in need of restor. As in clean its pasages then re plug it. the treads are good. Not too much play in butterfly shaft. If you want it PM Me.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-27-2012, 04:00 AM

I used to buy Thread-Serts, simple self tapping stainless inserts & no special taps or tools needed to install. Can't locare them anymore. They even had tiny ones to repair stripped holes in pot metal carb bodies. Bill W.

mach0415 · 08-27-2012, 10:22 AM

Thanks for all the great suggestions. We used larger bolts and nuts to mount it until we get another upper body for it.

08-25-2012, 07:11 PM	#1
mach0415 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Chester, SC Posts: 162	Zenith mount holes stripped Hello. As we were mounting the freshly rebuilt Zenith 1 to the intake, it was noted that the upper body flange to intake mounting holes have been drilled out. Chalk it up to the fact that this was overlooked upon my rebuilding it. So, the questions: 1.) Do we simply mount it with nuts and bolts (originally mounted with bolts that threaded into the carb body)? Its to be a driver. We'll worry about judging standards at some point on that. 2.) Do we weld them shut, drill and retap? 3.) Do we not waste our time and just get another good, used upper body? 4.) Is this a common issue found over the years as people have over/under torqued and stripped out? Input is appreciated Mark in NC __________________ Thanks, Mark in SC "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful." -- By society, who is still arguing over who said it.

08-25-2012, 07:14 PM	#2
MAG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 925	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Thought about using a Heli-Coil? __________________ I noticed the harder I work the luckier I get!

08-25-2012, 07:17 PM	#3
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped If the holes were not drilled out to large maybe it will accept a 5/16th helicoil. that would be the way i would try to go. would also loktite the helicoils in

08-25-2012, 08:35 PM	#4
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped I've had this happen on ag equipment over the years... probably the easiest thing to do if you're not worried about fine-point judging, is to use a slightly longer bolt and and nut. You might have to use a thin jam-nut... Or the heli-coiol

08-25-2012, 08:42 PM	#5
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Helicoil __________________ _________________________________________ 1931 Ford Model A Tudor 1930 Ford Model A Deluxe Roadster 1930 Ford Original Rolling Chassis- Restoring

08-26-2012, 06:09 AM	#6
mach0415 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Chester, SC Posts: 162	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Helicoil crossed my mind, but the hole is waaay too big for stock bolts. Slightly longer bolts with nuts is the way to go for now, I think. __________________ Thanks, Mark in SC "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful." -- By society, who is still arguing over who said it.

08-26-2012, 08:50 AM	#7
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Find another top and just transfer the bottom over?? Paul in CT

08-26-2012, 09:05 AM	#8
BillLee/Chandler, TX Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: The sticks of east Texas Posts: 474	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Take a look at the TechTopics on my club's website. There is an article on putting helicoils in a couple of carbs. Pictures and some specifications, etc. http://www.CedarCreekAs.org and then the TechTopics link Really an easy fix. __________________ Bill Lee http://www.CedarCreekAs.org

08-26-2012, 09:34 AM	#9
Ray in La Mesa Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: La Mesa Ca Posts: 1,166	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped You could tap the larger holes to whatever size they will be ,screw in a bolt and lock it with bearing lock, JB Weld or the high strength Locktite. Then cut the bolt off flush and redrill it to standard size.

08-26-2012, 09:46 AM	#10
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Nut and bolt until you get another casting. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

08-26-2012, 10:20 AM	#11
Elcastor Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Oregon and Baja Mexico Posts: 617	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Use a longer bolt with a nut and go have fun driving it. Later you can probably find another intake manifold and fix it right. __________________ Ben Purkey Mexico and the Pacific NW http://www.martin-parry.com/

08-26-2012, 10:55 AM	#12
Logan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 1,055	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Just nut and bolt it. No one will notice, and it's not for judging so who cares. __________________ Cowtown A's

08-26-2012, 12:42 PM	#13
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped If the hole is to big for a Helicoil you could use something like the insert in this link, takes a 1/2"-13 hole. http://www.mcmaster.com/#thread-repair-inserts/=j0p3j4 Bob

08-26-2012, 01:32 PM	#14
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,234	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Time sert is a possibility, but expensive. Cheaper to get another top casting I would think. Bob

08-26-2012, 01:58 PM	#15
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,234	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped after looking at bill lee's club site heli coil looks do able. bob

08-26-2012, 02:16 PM	#16
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Because of broken ears, striped out bolt holes for the big bolt etc, there are a lot more good bottoms then tops.

08-26-2012, 08:44 PM	#17
Napa Skip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Napa CA Posts: 412	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped I would try the least invasive approach first, i.e., the nut and bolt scenario recommended by several F/B's above. However, looking at the three Zenith 1's I have (one in service and two bench spares) I see only about 1/8" clearance under the forward ear of the carburetor upper body. Thus, absent filing off the underside of this ear, which I would not recommend, you would only get about 1/8 x 18 = 2-1/4 thread engagement on a 1/8"-thick "jamb" nut and 5/16-18 bolt. This might provide marginal bolting force but might be worth a try before going the Heli-coil route. Or, perhaps your Zenith 1 has more clearance under the forward ear. __________________ Skip Keyser Napa Valley A's Olympic Vintage Auto Club (1980-1982) MARC of San Diego (1977-1978) MAFCA (since 1978) MARC (since 1977) ---------- Model A owners belong in their Model A’s; Model A’s belong on the road.

08-27-2012, 01:00 AM	#18
Cory Moffat Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chief lake BC Canada Posts: 60	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped I got a bucket O old carbs in the garage. I got a top I could send you. Its old and rusty in need of restor. As in clean its pasages then re plug it. the treads are good. Not too much play in butterfly shaft. If you want it PM Me.

08-27-2012, 04:00 AM	#19
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped I used to buy Thread-Serts, simple self tapping stainless inserts & no special taps or tools needed to install. Can't locare them anymore. They even had tiny ones to repair stripped holes in pot metal carb bodies. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-27-2012, 10:22 AM	#20
mach0415 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Chester, SC Posts: 162	Re: Zenith mount holes stripped Thanks for all the great suggestions. We used larger bolts and nuts to mount it until we get another upper body for it. __________________ Thanks, Mark in SC "We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful." -- By society, who is still arguing over who said it.