|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
10-15-2020, 08:26 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London On, Can.
Posts: 377
|
t 5 tranmission
is there a kit one can get to add a T5 transmission to a Model A? or is it done?
|
10-15-2020, 10:36 PM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 85
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Yes, some people is running a T5. Not sure who has the kits/parts but I am sure that someone will pop up with the answer.
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
10-16-2020, 06:17 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,410
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
|
10-16-2020, 07:27 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,508
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
The two or three things to be aware of about this conversion is;
One of the 4 structural crossmembers of the frame is severely compromised to make this modification. Granted, this crossmember can be modified to add the rigidity back to the member however most people do not do this. The stock Model-A frame is considered weak by design to begin with, and when one of them is cut removing much of the strength, it really is not a good thing. Second, when the stock 'torque tube' is removed from the driveline, most do not realize the compromise that is made. Not only does this tube "push" the vehicle as it transfers the forward motion of the vehicle from the rear axle up to the back of the transmission, -it also counteracts the rotational torque caused as the rear axle transfers the power to the rear wheels/tires. Without the torque tube to transfer this energy, it is left to the small radius rods. Many of these conversions have failed using unmodified radius rods. The third thing to be aware of is there is a potential of a clutch chatter and/or vibration caused by the clutch disc alignment. The reason is because there is an adapter that is used to lengthen the front end of the transmission input shaft. I believe that some of these either had a poorly made adapter, -or the transmission input shaft was not within specs which allowed the clutch disc to not remain centered in the plane of the flywheel and transmission. This I feel is another poor design of this modification. |
10-16-2020, 07:37 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London On, Can.
Posts: 377
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
thanks for all the great information I suggest adding a T5 to a Model A is not the greatest idea.johnny
|
10-16-2020, 08:27 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,508
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
10-16-2020, 08:36 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,462
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
A Mitchell Model "A" transmission fitted with syncromesh gears is a simpler to install than a T5.
__________________
Bob Bidonde |
10-16-2020, 08:38 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Durango CO
Posts: 1,309
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
I've been running a T-5 for 10 years with none of the issues described by Brent. First off, before cutting the cross member, we made a piece that reinforced the cross member AFTER the cut using 8 grade 5 bolts to hold it in place. The rear radius rods were reinforced using 1' X 1/4" mild steel straps welded the length of the rods on the seam. Do a search over on the Jalopy Journal (same owner as the Fordbarn) and do a search on the subject. There is info there on using a Jeep T-5 and retaining the torque tune.
__________________
No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck! |
10-16-2020, 01:05 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 4,084
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
I've been running a T-5 in my Vicky for a few years, including some hill climbs. The Vicky has a Rutherford OHV conversion, so puts out some horsepower. I use an open drive line and an 8" rear end with coil-overs, so I have none of the above problems. The reason for me chiming in is that the T-5 is the best and easiest shifting option for the Model A that I have ever driven. I have driven Mitchel's, I have a speedster with a '39 V8 trans and a '31 wide-bed with Zephyr gears, the T-5 is the best of them all!!! miller hi-speed sells an adapter so you can retain the torque-yube.
|
10-16-2020, 04:56 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,420
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
The T5 has been successfully adapted for torque tube drive but the one thing that can't be easily changed is the location of the shifter. This is the reason that the Tremec/Ford T170 RTS was popular for a while. At least it had the shifter close to where it once was plus it too can be adapted for torque tube drive.
|
10-16-2020, 05:14 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lock Haven Pa.
Posts: 252
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
I have a T5 in a 30 pickup and it is a wonderful match for the Model A engine. Also have a 30 Tudor with a stock drive train. Love both equally.
|
10-16-2020, 06:25 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,405
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Quote:
Before you do anything, it is best to do some research on what is available for gear ratios and will a certain gear set satisfy you for your style and use of driving. Your engine horsepower needs to be figured in the final decision also. You need to figure out what YOU alone need. Asking other people will get you as many answers as people. There are probably at least 20 different stock OEM gear sets available and a few aftermarket ones also. Any transmission you buy could have any one of these. Some are really miserable to drive. The ID tags are not always accurate for ID either. Gear sets can be mixed also for special needs. There are certain modifications that can greatly prolong the life of the transmission and the ease of shifting also. There are several ways to do the conversion. None are easy unless you pay to have it done. The simplest way is to have the transmission converted to torque tube output. This retains the stock rear end and brakes if need be. There are ways to do it with NO modifications to the transmission also. Again, to repeat, if you don't get the gear ratios right FOR YOU, you are not going to like driving it. If you get it right, driving will be the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on. |
|
10-16-2020, 06:36 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Fort Gratiot, Michigan
Posts: 2,296
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
What will the main advantage be ? Wayne
|
10-16-2020, 06:46 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W
Posts: 1,052
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Main advantage is a full syncro modern gearbox with quieter helical gears.
Overdrive is part of the gearbox, no extra levers, switches or pull thingys. Kind of like having the overdrive as a part of an engineered system instead of an afterthought. Much easier to drive especially in traffic. I know it is hard to tell, but I like mine.........
__________________
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin. |
10-17-2020, 06:40 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Anderson, Texas
Posts: 275
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
there is a T5 from a S10 4x4 for sale on the HAMB....perfect for model a
|
10-18-2020, 07:57 AM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,093
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Quote:
|
|
10-18-2020, 03:50 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,405
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
|
10-18-2020, 09:58 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 585
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Pretty interesting discussion. Seems there are clearly technical benefits to the mod. Is there a philosophical element to be considered ? Most agree that safety belts, turn signals, and electrical mods are allowable without overly impacting originality. Is a major mod like a modern trans or even an engine crossing the originality rubicon which makes one's ride a Model A on the outside but not on the inside ? Is the value increased to some while decreased for others ? Everyone knows what is best for them and no criticism is intended to those to choose to mod or not to mod. Just curious if the old heads have any thoughts on the originality factor. As for me, I think the whinning and grinding and double clutching of an original trans if just part of the Model A charm.. Watcha think ?
|
10-19-2020, 12:14 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 9,115
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Then there is Bling.
__________________
Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club |
10-19-2020, 08:31 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,093
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Mullet, yes the whinning and grinding and double clutching of an original trans is just part of the Model A charm..
But, there is enough of the model a charm that you don't have to put up with the whinning and grinding and double clutching of an original trans and get moving as quickly as modern day traffic in town and the highway and stay saffer. I have a F150 trans and love it. The only thing that might be better would be a 5 speed. |
10-19-2020, 02:57 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 126
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
The big advantage of the T170 or T176 (Ford or Jeep)top shift, top loader transmission over the Borg Warner T5 is the length. When used with an AA bellhousing the crossmember needs only minimal trimming on the front flange for clearance. Also, the shifter location is only a couple inches farther back than the Model A shifter, as opposed to nearly a foot back for the T5.
__________________
I still have an excellent rememberer, trouble is my forgetter is so much better that it often overrides the rememberer. |
10-19-2020, 07:23 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Middletown, NY
Posts: 165
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
My T5 is WONDERFUL!!! Easy shifting with absolutely no problems in four years; shifts like a new car... 20+ MPG to boot, and just one lever to deal with. GD
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
10-22-2020, 12:44 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 114
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
|
10-22-2020, 01:14 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,405
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
[QUOTE=PotvinV8;1944007]It's more like 6-8 inches actually when using an S-10 tailshaft...
IT IS 3 INCHES ON MY CAR!!!! |
10-22-2020, 08:15 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Durango CO
Posts: 1,309
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
It hasn't changed in 10 years, still 3". Rather than buy a used S-10 transmission and rebuild it, mine is brand new.
__________________
No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck! |
10-24-2020, 12:31 AM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 114
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Ended up getting carpet from Classtique, cut my own holes, and attached the rubber mat myself. Is your shifter close to the seat in 2-4-R? If memory serves me correct, mine was pretty close before I moved it closer to the stock location. |
10-24-2020, 04:13 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,405
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
I went back and precision measured (with a tape Measure). The stick pivot is 3.4375
back from my original. The stick is 15 inches long above the pivot. The center of the shift knob travels 4 inches from 1 to 2. The stick is 3 inches from the seat at the closest point when in gear 2 and the seat full forward. I made a new stick from bar stock. It is 2 inches longer below the pivot. There is a 2 inch riser block under the shifter cover. A couple of things to remember when thinking about a T5 conversion: 1- They came in many different configurations from many different brands of cars. 2- They came in many different strength ratings from 265 to 335 ft.lb. |
10-24-2020, 04:41 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 5,844
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Quote:
|
|
10-24-2020, 05:41 PM | #29 |
Senior Member
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
|
10-24-2020, 06:14 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Upstate New York
Posts: 1,160
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Cal-T: search on "F150 tranny with overdrive" and you'll find all the info you need.
__________________
AL in NY Last edited by AL in NY; 10-24-2020 at 06:26 PM. |
10-25-2020, 01:41 PM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: midlothian illinois
Posts: 447
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Can someone please explain the mechanics of the shifter and its twin brother as shown in post #23 ? Obviously the forward shifters position has nothing to do with the transmission itself, but I can't quite figure out the connection and mounting of the bottom portion of the "Phantom" shifter lever. Are they using a Heim joint or some other fixed mount shaft with a pivot on the end? As simple as this is, it would be a great addition to any T-5 set up and I for one would like to have this for my car. Thanks
|
10-25-2020, 02:30 PM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 11,106
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Quote:
........ |
|
10-25-2020, 11:07 PM | #33 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 114
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
10-26-2020, 09:15 AM | #34 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Jersey Shore
Posts: 9
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
|
10-31-2020, 12:17 AM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Daniel Island,SouthCarolina/Knoxville, Tennessee/Sanibel Island,Florida
Posts: 292
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Are there any thoughts on whether the five speed T-5 transmission or the four speed Tremec/Ford T170 RTS as used in the mid eighties F-150 trucks is preferable?
Are there pros and cons to either transmission for use in a Model A? |
10-31-2020, 03:48 AM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 11,106
|
Re: t 5 tranmission
Quote:
Below, you will see a picture of an interesting T5 that Heard (also here on the 'Barn) and I assembled for his '36 3-window coupe. We assembled it completely from factory Borg-Warner (Tremec) parts. The main case and gear set is the 2.95 to 1 close ratio gears from a V8 Camaro, with the short main shaft and VERY SHORT rear tail shaft housing coming from a 4 X 4 Jeep CJ application....AGAIN, all factory T5 parts, BOLT-TOGETHER....No machine work! THIS trans is even four+ inches shorter than the Chevy S-10 4 X 4 version that you read about some guys converting to. Then, as you can see, we adapted it to a Ford torque tube/drive shaft, which is virtually identical to a Model A set-up. If interested, you can read our entire build at the link below. The bottom picture shows where the shifter would end-up with this T5, as well as any T5 with a Chevy S-10 two wheel drive tail shaft housing/shifter. T5s are extremely versatile and can be assembled in a multitude of variations. DD https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...T5+TORQUE+TUBE ........ |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|