The Ford Barn

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 03:09 PM

I know this is not for ever one, so don't look if you do not want to see a chev crank in a, A engine.

After a couple of years I'm back working on this engine. Today I started to make rods for this engine out of 7075 Alum. I made a wooden one first to make sure my math was right. If there is any interest I can post some pictures of making the rods along the way. This engine will be for my home built over head cylinder head.

Juggler · 10-05-2015, 03:21 PM

Interest here

Pics please Mr Miller

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 10-05-2015, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

I know this is not for ever one, so don't look if you do not want to see a chev crank in a, A engine.

After a couple of years I'm back working on this engine. Today I started to make rods for this engine out of 7075 Alum. I made a wooden one first to make sure my math was right. If there is any interest I can post some pictures of making the rods along the way. This engine will be for my home built over head cylinder head.

Oh, Ya, George! PICTURES.

Herm.

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 03:29 PM

Ok I will take them after each operation. Also I will be using 283 Chev pistons.

super flat · 10-05-2015, 03:30 PM

George, Whittle away and lots of pictures please! Gary

Cockshutt Kid · 10-05-2015, 04:08 PM

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Would love to see more about the crank installation also. Is that a timing chain that I see? That looks real interesting.

Vicky · 10-05-2015, 04:09 PM

I'm watching, interesting

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 04:11 PM

Day one. The picture of putting in wrist pin holes. Also the wooden rod that I made to make sure my math was right. Also to make sure it cleared every thing in side the engine. The alum rods will be a little different in shape.

flatford39 · 10-05-2015, 04:16 PM

Please keep the pics coming. Are you building a racing motor for the salt flats???

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatford39

Please keep the pics coming. Are you building a racing motor for the salt flats???

No Just wanted to do it. I wanted to use it with the cylinder head that I made a few years back.

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cockshutt Kid

Would love to see more about the crank installation also. Is that a timing chain that I see? That looks real interesting.

Yes. I will see if I have any pictures of when the crank was put in.

JohnTee · 10-05-2015, 04:58 PM

Thanks for this post Mr. Miller. How about some specs on the crankshaft. Been trying for some time to find one like this. Never thought to look at chev as the source.

Rex_A_Lott · 10-05-2015, 05:21 PM

NIce! Never seen anybody whittle a rod out of barstock. Good Luck

Russ/40 · 10-05-2015, 05:41 PM

Im most curious how you handled the cam lobe timing.

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Im most curious how you handled the cam lobe timing.

Used the chev cam that went with the crank.

Miles in MN · 10-05-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Used the chev cam that went with the crank.

What is the source of the Chev crank and cam? Are they early or are they from the 153 cid overhead? Didn't Chevrolet transition from four to six cylinder in 1927 or 28? Very interesting project!!

Ron W · 10-05-2015, 06:51 PM

It looks like the center lines of #2 and #3 journals may be offset from the bores? I'm curious how you will handle that. Ron W

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miles in MN

What is the source of the Chev crank and cam? Are they early or are they from the 153 cid overhead? Didn't Chevrolet transition from four to six cylinder in 1927 or 28? Very interesting project!!

They went to the 6 cylinder in 29. The crank is from a V8, so you can not use the A cam, because the A is a flat crank. The chev is 90 degree crank. The valve timing would be wrong.

The 153 crank would be great, but it is to short for the A block. The A block is wide between 2,3 cylinders because of the dist. going through the head and into the block.

AL in NY · 10-05-2015, 07:30 PM

George, I don't think you can get a "smooth" firing order using the V8 90 degree crank. Depending on how you set up the valve timing, a 720 degree firing cycle would go 180-90-180-270 or 180-270-180-90. You can't get 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation between each of the 4 cylinders in the firing cycle. Seems to me the engine would run ruff.

Tom Wesenberg · 10-05-2015, 07:46 PM

Yep, as Al said..........I wonder if it will sound like a pair of John Deere tractors running together?

It will be interesting..........as well as a lot of work. What is the stroke?

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yep, as Al said..........I wonder if it will sound like a pair of John Deere tractors running together?

It will be interesting..........as well as a lot of work. What is the stroke?

I really do not know how it will sound, that will be part of the fun. The new chev V8 trucks run on 4 when they are going easy. I do think it will idle a little strange

Tom It will be 1 inch less. 3 1/4, but I will be able to gain RPMS, with my cylinder head. It will be interesting to see how it does.If it does not work out I will only be out my work and a few dollars for material. But the fun and what I learn will be worth it.

George Miller · 10-05-2015, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL in NY

George, I don't think you can get a "smooth" firing order using the V8 90 degree crank. Depending on how you set up the valve timing, a 720 degree firing cycle would go 180-90-180-270 or 180-270-180-90. You can't get 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation between each of the 4 cylinders in the firing cycle. Seems to me the engine would run ruff.

Yes the firing will not be smooth. Like Tom said a John Deere, Also Harleys.
I did have a Couple John Deere when I was farming years ago.I also put a Harley 45 engine in my Cushman When I was 16 years old. We will see

old car guy · 10-05-2015, 09:19 PM

George very interesting project it doesn't matter that it can't be done only that you do it. All the fun is always what wasn't or could not work , was to make it yours good bad indifferent it's still a cool project . Keep the pictures rolling.

hardtimes · 10-05-2015, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

I know this is not for ever one, so don't look if you do not want to see a chev crank in a, A engine.

After a couple of years I'm back working on this engine. Today I started to make rods for this engine out of 7075 Alum. I made a wooden one first to make sure my math was right. If there is any interest I can post some pictures of making the rods along the way. This engine will be for my home built over head cylinder head.

Hey George,
Definite YES

! Lots of info and pictures on both rods and crankshaft fitment !!

That looks like A block. Any reason for using A , or was that what was available ?

George Miller · 10-06-2015, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Definite YES

! Lots of info and pictures on both rods and crankshaft fitment !!

That looks like A block. Any reason for using A , or was that what was available ?

That is what I had. It seems funny but after restoring 25 Model A's and doing a few engines for friends, I have never work on or seen a B engine.

100IH · 10-06-2015, 10:21 AM

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Just as a side note, Buick 231 1975-77 v-6, made an odd fire engine that was somewhat rough at idle but very smooth on the highway. At the same time but for a longer duration, they made the "same" engine an even fire version. REALLY ROUGH was when a tech put on the wrong dist. cap. I drove them both as a dealer mechanic and I preferred the odd one.

Jim Brierley · 10-06-2015, 10:39 AM

A friend of mine ran a 5 cyl. hemi V8 at the Lakes to get into a certain cubic inch class. He said it did idle oddly but was smooth under power and higher RPM. Your project is interesting but I think you'll find the torque way down because of the smaller cubic inches.

Nathan_1929 · 10-06-2015, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Day one. The picture of putting in wrist pin holes. Also the wooden rod that I made to make sure my math was right. Also to make sure it cleared every thing in side the engine. The alum rods will be a little different in shape.

I'd suggest holding the endmill in a collet, not a drill chuck, and raising the table up more.

Is 7075 a suitable application for engine temps? Are you going to shot peen it? Heat treat it?

George Miller · 10-06-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan_1929

I'd suggest holding the endmill in a collet, not a drill chuck, and raising the table up more.

Is 7075 a suitable application for engine temps? Are you going to shot peen it? Heat treat it?

Thanks for the advice, but I have been running a Mill for many years. The end mills only job is to open up the hole. By not using a collet I can change tools faster. The finish size will be done with a boring head.

hardtimes · 10-06-2015, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

That is what I had. It seems funny but after restoring 25 Model A's and doing a few engines for friends, I have never work on or seen a B engine.

Hey George,
Wow, 'never' worked or seen B

! I'd have lost $ betting against that .
BTW..When you get time to add notes/information (tutorial) on how you add the extra two mains to a stock block

!

rowens55 · 10-06-2015, 02:05 PM

Some you fellas and your engineering skills NEVER ceases to amaze me!!! WAY kool project!! Rowen

George Miller · 10-06-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Wow, 'never' worked or seen B

! I'd have lost $ betting against that .
BTW..When you get time to add notes/information (tutorial) on how you add the extra two mains to a stock block

!

Well I just cut out some pieces of metal and pinned and welded them in. Then made new main caps for a 5 mains. I looked for some pictures of the block when I was doing it. But could not find any.

Got the pictures for today but can not get them to up load.

George Miller · 10-06-2015, 02:46 PM

I finished the bore in piston pin end to day. Plus I put the face plate on the lathe with the fixture for boring the big end of the rod. But first have cut the bottom of the rod at the center line of the bore in the big end. Then drill the bolt holes. Will drill the bolt holes first. Then bolt it back together.

The 4 picture is the boring head for the finish bore.

Charlie Stephens · 10-06-2015, 03:14 PM

What Chevy engine are the crank and cam out of?

Charlie Stephens

George Miller · 10-06-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron W

It looks like the center lines of #2 and #3 journals may be offset from the bores? I'm curious how you will handle that. Ron W

It is a V8 crank so two were together on one journal. IT Works out 1and2 go to the front of the journal and 3 and 4 go to the back of the journal. Will have to make some spacers for there.

Ron W · 10-06-2015, 04:54 PM

It's a very exciting project! I wish you the best with it. It seems there is no limit to what we will do to use the model A block. Ron W

colin1928 · 10-07-2015, 04:14 AM

George do you still have the engine with the 455 head ?

Charlville · 10-07-2015, 04:49 AM

Very interesting, keep it coming

George Miller · 10-07-2015, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin1928

George do you still have the engine with the 455 head ?

No I sold that to a guy on ham a couple of years a go. I also had one with a 1928 chev head on a engine in a 1928 Ford pickup. I sold the truck with that on it.

Just have the over head that I made, which will go on this engine,

redmodelt · 10-07-2015, 10:37 AM

Here is a first off Model T 5 main block before being fully machined.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1444223576

Herb Kephart · 10-07-2015, 10:46 AM

George

VERY interested in this--and have a couple questions.
You moved the main bearing stud centers out to an area where the rib in the block is thin--what did you do about this? Also what do you intend to do about the misalignment of the lifter holes with the respective cam lobe?
Also, I wonder why you bored the big end of the rods on your lathe? I always did it in the mill, to insure parallelism of the hole, with the just bored wrist pin hole--neglecting inevitable table rock.
Wondering also if you did the line boring your self? I have line bored the mains on both Ford and Chevy fours on the Bridgeport with a truly Mickey Mouse rig--but the reground crank spins in the inset bearings--so I was happy. The table is longer than your Moog, admit ably. Looked for a photo of this, but I guess that it was on film, and now is lost in a one of many boxes.

Herb Kephart

George Miller · 10-07-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

What Chevy engine are the crank and cam out of?

Charlie Stephens

Big journal 327. the stroke is only 3.250. But I,m not after torque. More rpms and HP will work for me.

George Miller · 10-07-2015, 01:34 PM

Also, I wonder why you bored the big end of the rods on your lathe?

To me it is easier faster, no tapper when bored, more rigid, so no chatter.

I always did it in the mill, to insure parallelism of the hole, with the just bored wrist pin hole

The fixture on the lathe makes sure it has no twist. parallels between face plate and part make sure it is square. Then you can check it with a indicator for final check.

Wondering also if you did the line boring your self?

Yes made my own machine. use on the mill with a right angle head.

I have made 3 sets of 7075 rods before for the A crank for different kinds of pistons. They worked real well.

George Miller · 10-07-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Wow, 'never' worked or seen B

! I'd have lost $ betting against that .
BTW..When you get time to add notes/information (tutorial) on how you add the extra two mains to a stock block

!

Punch my name go to my album. hit show all albums. There is a picture there of the 5 main with out a crank, that show what you want to know.

George Miller · 10-07-2015, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herb Kephart

George

VERY interested in this--and have a couple questions.
You moved the main bearing stud centers out to an area where the rib in the block is thin--what did you do about this? Also what do you intend to do about the misalignment of the lifter holes with the respective cam lobe?
Also, I wonder why you bored the big end of the rods on your lathe? I always did it in the mill, to insure parallelism of the hole, with the just bored wrist pin hole--neglecting inevitable table rock.
Wondering also if you did the line boring your self? I have line bored the mains on both Ford and Chevy fours on the Bridgeport with a truly Mickey Mouse rig--but the reground crank spins in the inset bearings--so I was happy. The table is longer than your Moog, admit ably. Looked for a photo of this, but I guess that it was on film, and now is lost in a one of many boxes.

Herb Kephart

The miss alinement of lifter bores will be fixed with new lifter boss made in one long bar. Then attached to the block.

hardtimes · 10-08-2015, 12:19 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Punch my name go to my album. hit show all albums. There is a picture there of the 5 main with out a crank, that show what you want to know.

Thanks George ! Keep up your interesting/innovative work,eh

!!

Bob Bidonde · 10-08-2015, 08:44 AM

George,
Your cerebral and machine skills are fantastic.

holdover · 10-08-2015, 09:05 AM

Now that is engineering, and innovation.

George Miller · 10-08-2015, 01:50 PM

Squaring up the end of rod,cap and drill holes to hold cap on.

Next will be putting the rotary table on the mill to shape the rods. Then finish bore.

George Miller · 10-08-2015, 01:57 PM

Rough boring crank pin end. Now the rod will get shaped then come back for finish bore. It needs be rough bored first because when you relive all that metal it will distort some. Then when you come back and finish bore it will stay round.

Also a picture of drilling the holes for the rod cap.

George Miller · 10-10-2015, 11:32 AM

Putting on the radius on the big end of rod.

Still more work. Need to do the finish bore, and more shaping on the rod.
Maybe next week.

hardtimes · 10-10-2015, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Putting on the radius on the big end of rod.

Still more work. Need to do the finish bore, and more shaping on the rod.
Maybe next week.

Hey George,
Nice work, also thanks for pictures

!
I curious, since you indicate that you are after/will get more RPMs with this engine....how do aluminum rods rate (for wear/durability) against steel rods ? Ok, less weight, but what about stretch and deforming, etc ?
I contemplated using alum rods , for recipro wt savings, but settled for Crower. I've often wondered whether there are better /best alum rods ?

George Miller · 10-10-2015, 06:47 PM

Well I'm not sure how much weight you would save, depending on what kind of steel. You would have to make the alum bigger to have the same strength. 7075 is about 70,000 for tensile strength. If I was racing I would want steel like 4340.

Like most metals there are lots of grades and types of steel and alum.

George Miller · 10-12-2015, 02:27 PM

up date on rods. Shaped but still need to remove weight. They are heaver than stock chev rods.

George Miller · 10-15-2015, 02:14 PM

Well the rods are almost done. Just have to put in the notch for the bearing tank.

Ron W · 10-15-2015, 08:16 PM

The rods look very nice! How does the weight compare to stock? Ron W

hale1776 · 10-15-2015, 08:50 PM

Reminds me of the Donovon Engine also 5 Main bearings http://www.modelaparts.net/hiperf.html/donovansem.html

George Miller · 10-15-2015, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron W

The rods look very nice! How does the weight compare to stock? Ron W

They are about the same weight. But they are also about 2 inches longer than stock chev rods. I think 7075 is heaver than lesser strength Alum.

johnneilson · 10-16-2015, 12:11 AM

George,

7075T6 is much stronger than 6061T6 tensile and yield. on the order of 1.6~1.8 x

hardtimes · 10-16-2015, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Well the rods are almost done. Just have to put in the notch for the bearing tank.

Hey George,
Wow, nice product

! Do you know expansion/grow rate of these rods , compared to Ford rods ? What bolts/nuts (chev?) are you using to fasten rod caps ?

hardtimes · 10-16-2015, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Well I'm not sure how much weight you would save, depending on what kind of steel. You would have to make the alum bigger to have the same strength. 7075 is about 70,000 for tensile strength. If I was racing I would want steel like 4340.

Like most metals there are lots of grades and types of steel and alum.

'if was racing' ?
Hey George,
I was thinking that you were using for 'hill climbing'/ racing, no

?

George Miller · 10-16-2015, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

'if was racing' ?
Hey George,
I was thinking that you were using for 'hill climbing'/ racing, no

?

Ya it is racing. But i was thinking of high RPMS for a long period of time.

old car guy · 10-17-2015, 12:05 AM

You are really doing a fantastic job on the whole project. How many hours do you have in the machining of the rods. They are a thing of beauty from the pictures that you have shown us . How much time do you figure you will have in the whole engine project. I appalaud you on the job you are doing. . And I hope that the running engine will be as fantastic as your work. Congratulation on a superb job.

George Miller · 10-17-2015, 07:33 AM

Thanks for the good words. How many hours. I did not keep up with the hours, but I have about 30 hours in the rods. But with a CNC mill it would be much faster. I did it the way we would have done it 40 years ago.

The engine is just some thing I wanted to do. I think it will work well with my home built cylinder head. But it will be different. Like Tom says it will sound like two two cylinder John Deere's running. They were odd fire also.

George Miller · 10-17-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Wow, nice product

! Do you know expansion/grow rate of these rods , compared to Ford rods ? What bolts/nuts (chev?) are you using to fasten rod caps ?

Do you know the grow rate of these rods. No but it will be more than steel or chev rods.

What bolts and nuts. 3/8 chev rod bolts. The ones for the big journal chev.

A little better picture of the rods, maybe.

George Miller · 10-17-2015, 09:27 AM

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Lets try again some may be repeat.

Still have a little touch up left to do plus putting in the bearing tab slot.

Ron W · 10-17-2015, 10:10 AM

Looks like the relief for the head of the bolts leaves a small cross section? I hope that won't be too weak? Ron W

just plain bill · 10-17-2015, 12:35 PM

I have a set of model A REM Al rods and they are heavier than stock model A rods. Bob told me that he used the same blank for his rods and just bored the B's larger. When the A rods didn't sell he just bored them out to B size. I'm thinking of boring my set out to B.

George Miller · 10-17-2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron W

Looks like the relief for the head of the bolts leaves a small cross section? I hope that won't be too weak? Ron W

You are right Ron you have a good eye. But I only have so much room to get by the camshaft. That is the weak point of the rod. But the real strain is on the down stroke when it fires. I did put a radius in there which will help. It is the same amount as a stock Chev rod so maybe it will be ok.

Ron W · 10-17-2015, 03:50 PM

I've got my fingers crossed for you! Ron W

George Miller · 10-19-2015, 01:39 PM

Decide to take a little more weigh off the rods.

George Miller · 10-28-2015, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Herb Kephart

George

VERY interested in this--and have a couple questions.
You moved the main bearing stud centers out to an area where the rib in the block is thin--what did you do about this? Also what do you intend to do about the misalignment of the lifter holes with the respective cam lobe?
Also, I wonder why you bored the big end of the rods on your lathe? I always did it in the mill, to insure parallelism of the hole, with the just bored wrist pin hole--neglecting inevitable table rock.
Wondering also if you did the line boring your self? I have line bored the mains on both Ford and Chevy fours on the Bridgeport with a truly Mickey Mouse rig--but the reground crank spins in the inset bearings--so I was happy. The table is longer than your Moog, admit ably. Looked for a photo of this, but I guess that it was on film, and now is lost in a one of many boxes.

Herb Kephart
The miss alignment of lifter bores will be fixed with new lifter boss made in one long bar. Then attached to the block.
Here is a picture of the start of long boss bar.

hardtimes · 10-28-2015, 10:37 PM

Hey George,
Hm, I can not see small pic details...even with my CVS glasses. Your pics will not enlarge as per usual. Maybe just me/my beloved puter..ha !
Thanks for sharing your skills/talent/pictures.

George Miller · 10-29-2015, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Hm, I can not see small pic details...even with my CVS glasses. Your pics will not enlarge as per usual. Maybe just me/my beloved puter..ha !
Thanks for sharing your skills/talent/pictures.

Sorry but I'm not a computer guy. I have no clue what to do.
But it is just a flat bar with bores for the lifters
that runs the length of the inside of the engine.
When I get it done I will take some better pictures, maybe.

Ron W · 10-29-2015, 08:01 AM

The original pic is quite small. It's only 319 X239 pxl @ 100%. Ron W

George Miller · 11-03-2015, 02:57 PM

Hardtimes I hope you can see this. It is the lifter boss in the block. also the the 5 mains in the model A block.

Lifter boss is made for hydraulic lifters, because the cam is for hydraulic lifters.

hardtimes · 11-03-2015, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Hardtimes I hope you can see this. It is the lifter boss in the block. also the the 5 mains in the model A block.

Lifter boss is made for hydraulic lifters, because the cam is for hydraulic lifters.

Hey George,
Yes, nice pictures, thanks

! You are only limited in your creativity, by your imagination it seems ! How are the extra two 'mains' held to block..welding/pinning/JB ..what ? Hydraulic lifters ? How are these lifters oiled/pumped up/plumbed

colin1928 · 11-04-2015, 04:08 AM

George I Believe I see the oil pump is mounted at the rear of the block
how is that driven ? and are you going for dry sump ?
as the cam is chain driven how are you driving the distributor or mag

George Miller · 11-04-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Yes, nice pictures, thanks

! You are only limited in your creativity, by your imagination it seems ! How are the extra two 'mains' held to block..welding/pinning/JB ..what ? Hydraulic lifters ? How are these lifters oiled/pumped up/plumbed

The two mains are held in place with nickel rod and dowel pins.
the lifters are oiled through the the boss. It is two pieces pined together. I milled a oil path in them before they were put together.It it has pipe thread that will have a oil line going to the oil pump.

George Miller · 11-04-2015, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin1928

George I Believe I see the oil pump is mounted at the rear of the block
how is that driven ? and are you going for dry sump ?
as the cam is chain driven how are you driving the distributor or mag

The pump is driven from the gear on the end of the cam that use to drive the dist. and pump.

The distributor is driven from the front of the cam. It will be mounted to the front timing cover.

I plan on having the oil in the pan.

George Miller · 11-04-2015, 08:50 AM

I will see if I have a picture of the front cover and the front of the cam.

George Miller · 11-04-2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin1928

George I Believe I see the oil pump is mounted at the rear of the block
how is that driven ? and are you going for dry sump ?
as the cam is chain driven how are you driving the distributor or mag

This is not the right dist. But you can see how it works. The part that turns the dist. is on the front of the pan rail. It bolts to front of the cam.

I will have to use a V8 dist because of the uneven firing order.

colin1928 · 11-05-2015, 03:18 AM

Thanks George I see and understand now my hat is off to you

George Miller · 11-13-2015, 02:04 PM

Worked a little more on the engine to day. I'm going to use floating wrist pins with chev pistons. So today I put retainer ring groves in the pistons for the wrist pin retainer rings..

George Miller · 11-14-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Worked a little more on the engine to day. I'm going to use floating wrist pins with chev pistons. So today I put retainer ring groves in the pistons for the wrist pin retainer rings..

picture of expanding arbor and piston getting the grove.

George Miller · 11-16-2015, 02:05 PM

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Today's pictures.
Shortening the wrist pins so they will fit in-between the locks.
I have one picture showing the grooves for the retainer pins, but it is not to clear.

Next is to make spacers to locate the rod in the center of piston.

George Miller · 11-20-2015, 03:02 PM

To day I made some rod spacers for the crankshaft to put the rod in the right location on the crank, because it was made for two rods on each throw.

When I get ever think made and fit, I will have to take it all apart and clean it good.

Spokes · 11-20-2015, 03:26 PM

Very interesting,please keep pictures and dialog coming !!!

George Miller · 12-01-2015, 02:48 PM

Trial fit of over head cylinder head on 5 main block.

Bill Stipe · 12-01-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

I know this is not for ever one, so don't look if you do not want to see a chev crank in a, A engine.

After a couple of years I'm back working on this engine. Today I started to make rods for this engine out of 7075 Alum. I made a wooden one first to make sure my math was right. If there is any interest I can post some pictures of making the rods along the way. This engine will be for my home built over head cylinder head.

Cool George you just have too much time on your hands!!

hardtimes · 12-01-2015, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Trial fit of over head cylinder head on 5 main block.

Hey George,
Wow, that is awesome work

!!
Looks to be coming together just as you described previously.
I can just see some guy, in the future, finding this engine somewhere and opening it up and saying...whattheheck

! Now I get the idea of maybe what guys were trying out (experimenting), when I see some of the stuff that I've seen in engines that I've opened. Nothing as creative/rad as you and your innovations though ! Sure hope that you can/will post a video of first start up and run of this engine.

George Miller · 12-02-2015, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Stipe

Cool George you just have too much time on your hands!!

Hi Bill
Ya I know but not much to watch on TV.

George Miller · 12-02-2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Wow, that is awesome work

!!
Looks to be coming together just as you described previously.
I can just see some guy, in the future, finding this engine somewhere and opening it up and saying...whattheheck

! Now I get the idea of maybe what guys were trying out (experimenting), when I see some of the stuff that I've seen in engines that I've opened. Nothing as creative/rad as you and your innovations though ! Sure hope that you can/will post a video of first start up and run of this engine.

Yes I will post a picture, but no way to get the sound, which will be different.
Maybe in a month or two.

George Miller · 12-02-2015, 02:49 PM

Putting in main bearing oil lines.

Dodge · 12-03-2015, 03:22 AM

Hey George, if the hydraulic lifters don't work out you can use solid lifters and adjust
the valves for .006 thousands. We used to do it all the time on chevy V-8's with hydraulic
cams to cheat the rules.
Also how are you going about balancing the crankshaft. It seems like your going to have
to balance it like a V-8 using bobweights in which case your going to have to cut down
the counter weights quite a bit to make up the the loss of weight of the other rod and piston. Maybe the spacer should be made bigger and of steel. My 2 cents.

George Miller · 12-03-2015, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Hey George, if the hydraulic lifters don't work out you can use solid lifters and adjust
the valves for .006 thousands. We used to do it all the time on chevy V-8's with hydraulic
cams to cheat the rules.
Also how are you going about balancing the crankshaft. It seems like your going to have
to balance it like a V-8 using bobweights in which case your going to have to cut down
the counter weights quite a bit to make up the the loss of weight of the other rod and piston. Maybe the spacer should be made bigger and of steel. My 2 cents.

Good questions I have been thinking about that, but have not come up with a answer yet.

HS · 12-03-2015, 05:12 PM

George,
Great! Can't wait to hear about the engine. Are you and Marilyn coming to the Grassy Creek Parade? Hope so.

Thanks, Hugh

George Miller · 12-03-2015, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HS

George,
Great! Can't wait to hear about the engine. Are you and Marilyn coming to the Grassy Creek Parade? Hope so.

Thanks, Hugh

Yes HUGH WE PLAN ON GOING SEE YOU THERE.

hardtimes · 12-04-2015, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Putting in main bearing oil lines.

Hey George,
Are these oil lines steel or copper? And, can you show more of how those lines connect (solder/braze) and where routed

George Miller · 12-04-2015, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Are these oil lines steel or copper? And, can you show more of how those lines connect (solder/braze) and where routed

oil lines are steel. copper would be easer but it work hardens and breaks. IMH opinion it is not good to use inside a engine or for brake lines.

I will try to get some better pictures when they are connected.
But they will run through main bearing support boss in to the lifter boss block, that I made for the lifters. I drilled a hole in the main bearing supports that has a champer . Then I flare the end of the line that fits in the champer. The insert bearning will keep the line down in the champer. just as clear mud right.

George Miller · 12-09-2015, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
Are these oil lines steel or copper? And, can you show more of how those lines connect (solder/braze) and where routed

Here you go. the two main webs that were added, the lines hook to the bottom. I put fittings in there before they were installed. The other three go through a hole in the web, the inserts will go over top of them.

hardtimes · 12-09-2015, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Here you go. the two main webs that were added, the lines hook to the bottom. I put fittings in there before they were installed. The other three go through a hole in the web, the inserts will go over top of them.

Thanks George

!
What type distributor will you run/use ?

George Miller · 12-09-2015, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Thanks George

!
What type distributor will you run/use ?

Will be using a V8 running it off the end of the cam, on the timing gear cover.

hardtimes · 12-13-2015, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Will be using a V8 running it off the end of the cam, on the timing gear cover.

Hm, you lost me now,eh

!
Can you picture that or explain how that drive happens ? Mabe use V8 Cap using only four contacts ??

George Miller · 12-13-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hm, you lost me now,eh

!
Can you picture that or explain how that drive happens ? Mabe use V8 Cap using only four contacts ??

On the front end of the cam shaft. Have a machined pice that bolts to the cam gear. Then there is a hole through the timing cover in line with the adapter that drives the dist. Then I use a V8 dist because of the uneven firing order. I will modify the the dist to firer the right cylinders at the right time.

I will post a picture when it is installed.

George Miller · 01-02-2016, 03:45 PM

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Up date the pistons and cam are in.

Dodge · 01-03-2016, 01:43 AM

Wow. Please post a video when it runs. I would really like to hear it. Any more thoughts
on the balancing?

George Miller · 01-03-2016, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Wow. Please post a video when it runs. I would really like to hear it. Any more thoughts
on the balancing?

I do not have a way to do that. But my Son said he will come and make a video if and when the engine is ready. At this point I think it will run, how good we will see.

My plan is to take it to the hill climb in May. But I have a good hot engine waiting just in case this one does not do well.

zzlegend · 01-03-2016, 10:28 AM

George, is this going in the red one or the blue roadster? Been following this and would sure like to see a video also when completed. Amazing work and detail. Good luck with it and Happy New Year.

rowens55 · 01-03-2016, 11:13 AM

Maybe I'm jus a goober,..but this is just amazing to me!! The ingenuity, machining, and overall imagination,....just amazing!! Fantastic Mr Miller, you have my utmost respect!! I too can't wait to see/hear it run!!
Rowen

George Miller · 01-03-2016, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzlegend

George, is this going in the red one or the blue roadster? Been following this and would sure like to see a video also when completed. Amazing work and detail. Good luck with it and Happy New Year.

I though I was done with hill climbs, so I sold the red one with a 4 port flat head in it. The blue one has a 51 Ford flat head now. It runs so nice do not want to mess with it.

So making a new one out of parts that are laying around. Here is a picture of the new one and a picture of the red one with the 4 port engine.

George Miller · 01-03-2016, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowens55

Maybe I'm jus a goober,..but this is just amazing to me!! The ingenuity, machining, and overall imagination,....just amazing!! Fantastic Mr Miller, you have my utmost respect!! I too can't wait to see/hear it run!!
Rowen

Thanks for the kind words. Just had the right Dad and jobs in my life that pointed me in this direction.

zzlegend · 01-03-2016, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

I though I was done with hill climbs, so I sold the red one with a 4 port flat head in it. The blue one has a 51 Ford flat head now. It runs so nice do not want to mess with it.

So making a new one out of parts that are laying around. Here is a picture of the new one and a picture of the read one with the 4 port engine.

I remember at one time you posted a picture of the blue one. Got a 46 flathead in my 27 roadster and they just seem to get along nicely. Looking forward to your new project. That machine work is first class.

George Miller · 01-13-2016, 08:29 AM

Up date.
Back working on my engine. pistons are in, oil pump ready to go, cam timing done, dist just about ready, working on front damper for crankshaft.

The little things take a long time to do on some thing like this. No pictures because you can not see what was done. The oil pan and head will be soon.

hardtimes · 01-15-2016, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Up date.
Back working on my engine. pistons are in, oil pump ready to go, cam timing done, dist just about ready, working on front damper for crankshaft.

The little things take a long time to do on some thing like this. No pictures because you can not see what was done. The oil pan and head will be soon.

Thanks George for the update and details ! Getting antsy to hear that and how it performs. To guys without more than meager basic engine tech/knowledge (me

) ..this is darn near exciting as when starting my own newly made common B/A

!

Since your crank is sbc (?) , would not a balancer common to that crank/engine work ? If not, could you explain details of why and what has to be changed/why ?

George Miller · 01-15-2016, 02:24 PM

Should be more pictures today. Hard times I end up using a balancer from a 4 cylinder 151 chev. Mostly because I had one.

CarlG · 01-15-2016, 02:27 PM

All this makes the phrase that comes to mind: "Ford Tough - with Chevy Stuff"

George Miller · 01-15-2016, 04:10 PM

Here are some pictures of trial fit of head. Every thing looks ok except will need a little longer push rods. Lets paint it.

hardtimes · 01-16-2016, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Here are some pictures of trial fit of head. Every thing looks ok except will need a little longer push rods. Lets paint it.

Ah, great timing George...pushrods that is. And, great pics of head fitting..
Regarding making new pushrods, what materials....and HOW do you get proper LENGTH

.... And, how critical and close is proper length...for mechanical and hydraulic lifters..is thinking different on each kind ?

George Miller · 01-16-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Ah, great timing George...pushrods that is. And, great pics of head fitting..
Regarding making new pushrods, what materials....and HOW do you get proper LENGTH

.... And, how critical and close is proper length...for mechanical and hydraulic lifters..is thinking different on each kind ?

I'm going to buy mine from CV products. I think they use 4130. They sell parts for race cars.

42 High Tech Boulevard Thomasville NC 27360 PH 800-448-1223

If you get them from them they will tell you how to measure. It was something like 140 from the end of the push rod.

George Miller · 01-16-2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forever4

Make sure you don't get any Ford engine green paint on the white asbestos filler on the head gasket, or you will lose points in judging!

Good point maybe I could use fine line tape.

George Miller · 01-28-2016, 02:04 PM

Did a little work on the engine. To cold and wet to paint it, so I worked on clutch. Drilled the chev flywheel for a Mustang pressure plate. Using a 9" clutch plate that fits the 39 Ford transmission. Made bushing for the end of the crank so I could use the ford A Pilot bearing. Reworked the chev V8 starter to fit the Ford block with the chev flywheel.

Firing order for those that were wondering. hits on 1 then 3 skip hits on 2 skip skip hits on 4

hardtimes · 01-29-2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Did a little work on the engine. To cold and wet to paint it, so I worked on clutch. Drilled the chev flywheel for a Mustang pressure plate. Using a 9" clutch plate that fits the 39 Ford transmission. Made bushing for the end of the crank so I could use the ford A Pilot bearing. Reworked the chev V8 starter to fit the Ford block with the chev flywheel.

Firing order for those that were wondering. hits on 1 then 3 skip hits on 2 skip skip hits on 4

Hey George,
Awesome , thanks for update . Well, firing order IS close to fords banger, eh

!
Who needs a 'stinken auto supplier' store, when you are around

!
Geeze, I hope that you have this ALL documented ...in case something has to be 'ordered' by next guy with this

George Miller · 02-01-2016, 06:04 PM

We are getting there.

hardtimes · 02-01-2016, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

We are getting there.

Wonderful pictures, thanks for sharing

! How close to firing off ?
Will you have it on a stand for first test firing or in vehicle ?
Boy, did I ever learn the value of not putting my new B in the car for first start up. Have done it both ways, but getting to where it isn't as easy to remove it as it used to be

George Miller · 02-01-2016, 10:11 PM

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I'm going to put it in the hill climb car. I need to make sure every thing fits right. Then after it is runs some, will take it out and finish the hill climb car. Will be starting it before to long. Still have some things to take care of. Seems like the list of things to do gets bigger.

George Miller · 03-03-2016, 10:09 AM

Update on engine. Been working on the hill climb car (or should I say truck) with some friends.
Tried to get oil pressure on the engine. Pump did not want to work on the out side of engine. So reworked the camshaft and put a drive gear in the center from a Model A cam. Now we can use a oil pump drive from the A engine with the oil pump on the inside. Now we can move on to the next challenge.

George Miller · 04-26-2016, 01:49 PM

update.
Had the engine running for a short time. Did not run well, so set it a side and put the other engine that I have in my hill climb car. We are running out of time to get the car done. I think the problem is the cam shaft timing. It will have to wait until next winter.

Rowdy · 04-26-2016, 04:19 PM

Sorry to hear it did not run well. One thing I have been pondering; is this the same crank that Tod has in mind for his 5 bearing block? Probably should as in Tods block thread, but was wondering exactly what to do for a crank when I can afford a block in a few years. Might be time to find a couple of cheap cranks to offset the cost of such a build. Rod

George Miller · 04-26-2016, 04:34 PM

No this is a chev V8 crank. It is a 90 degree crank. I'm sure Tods will be 180 degree. With a 180 you can use the Model A cam. I think you would have to get a crank from Scat or one of the others that make special cranks. Maybe Tod will give us the answer.

rowens55 · 05-13-2016, 12:54 PM

George, any news on this engine? I was sorry to read the initial start up did not go well. Hoping to see a video soon of that bad boy runnin!
Rowen

George Miller · 05-13-2016, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowens55

George, any news on this engine? I was sorry to read the initial start up did not go well. Hoping to see a video soon of that bad boy runnin!
Rowen

It will be awhile before I can get back working on it. hill climb next week. Then get caught up on other jobs that got behind on.

Missouri A · 06-28-2016, 05:56 PM

Get er done!!!!!

George Miller · 06-28-2016, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missouri A

Get er done!!!!!

Here is where we are. It will be 3 weeks before I can try to start her.
Will post at that time how it worked out.

aonemarine · 06-28-2016, 06:29 PM

George.....out of curiosity did you happen to look at a mecruiser 470 crank to see if it was possible to fit into an A block or know anyone that has?

George Miller · 06-28-2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonemarine

George.....out of curiosity did you happen to look at a mecruiser 470 crank to see if it was possible to fit into an A block or know anyone that has?

If it is a GM 151 engine yes I did. It will not fit. In fact I have one.

aonemarine · 06-28-2016, 07:37 PM

no totally different beast....much bigger!!

George Miller · 06-28-2016, 07:40 PM

Then no I have not tried that one.

George Miller · 07-21-2016, 08:27 PM

Well we got it running tonight. It sounds good, but have some little things to take care of.
The guys took a video of it running and are going to put it on the Ford Barn.

tbirdtbird · 07-22-2016, 12:08 AM

YaY we need a link to the video.....!!!!!

devoreb · 07-27-2016, 06:50 PM

It sounds great
https://youtu.be/nhktJEMUuxM

tbirdtbird · 07-27-2016, 09:11 PM

Yikes, that is sweet as can be!!

I have a lot of respect for someone as talented as George

aonemarine · 07-27-2016, 11:06 PM

well, hate to say it but it sounds more like a SBC with one head removed, a broken crank, a blown head gasket, and two fouled plugs.....
what the h e double L people...

zzlegend · 07-28-2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonemarine

well, hate to say it but it sounds more like a SBC with one head removed, a broken crank, a blown head gasket, and two fouled plugs.....
what the h e double L people...

Well then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Perhaps you should post a video of your home made machined block, head, crank and cam, and intake, so we everyone can check it out.

That is, unless you have not built it yet.

And if that is the case,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we can wait.........

Russ/40 · 07-28-2016, 11:42 AM

Sounds terrible, mostly seems out of balance, but it actually runs! Amazing engine-unity. I'm betting you'll get the bugs out of it.

aonemarine · 07-28-2016, 12:24 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zzlegend

Well then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Perhaps you should post a video of your home made machined block, head, crank and cam, and intake, so we everyone can check it out.

That is, unless you have not built it yet.

And if that is the case,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we can wait.........

LOL dont wait on me. All Ive managed to do lately is take stuff apart.
Besides, there is enough people casting blocks as it is...

zzlegend · 07-28-2016, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonemarine

LOL dont wait on me. All Ive managed to do lately is take stuff apart.
Besides, there is enough people casting blocks as it is...

I agree on taking stuff apart. I am good at that.

Waiting for more of Tod's blocks to be made and might have to step up to the plate on one of those.

I think in time, George will work his out.

George Miller · 07-28-2016, 01:07 PM

Well it is a uneven fire it is not going to sound like stock 4 cylinder. Harley's sounds funny also but the go like hell. It is like one of the cylinder heads being off the v8. The firing order is hit, hit, miss, hit miss,miss hit. So it will sound different. The big question is how will it power a car.

Russ/40 · 07-28-2016, 03:24 PM

I'm digging the journey.

colin1928 · 07-28-2016, 04:19 PM

Nice job George great engineering

Jason in TX · 07-28-2016, 04:36 PM

This is so excellent! Great job!!!

aonemarine · 07-28-2016, 09:00 PM

Now lets hear that sucker at 5k rpms....lol

tbirdtbird · 07-28-2016, 09:48 PM

any chance you got a balancer on there, George?

George Miller · 07-29-2016, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

any chance you got a balancer on there, George?

Yes there is a balancer. It seems smooth on the stand, it also sounds a lot better when you hear it run in person. The sound did not come through the same as it sounded when we were running it.But like I said how it runs is what I care about.
My John Deere's Tractors I had when I was Farming sounded different also, but were strong tractors. They were 2 cylinders with both pistons coming to the top at the same time.

guyina4x4 · 07-29-2016, 04:59 PM

I like this
please keep it updated

C26Pinelake · 07-29-2016, 05:58 PM

What is the purpose the entire project ? Wayne

Flathead · 07-29-2016, 10:06 PM

I don't think it sounds bad, but I do own a Harley.

tbirdtbird · 07-29-2016, 10:44 PM

Yep, Harleys and John Deeres do not fire symmetrically, and they run just fine. In fact, they are loaded with torque

aonemarine · 07-29-2016, 11:27 PM

boy did I ruffle some feathers.....

Hicktick · 07-30-2016, 07:44 PM

Well I could tell it was your first piano recital ., Just kidding
Georges work speaks for itself .,

,.

,.

aonemarine · 07-30-2016, 08:12 PM

George, Im still eyeballing the 470 crank, there are a couple on e bay right now....
never know, I might race you up that hill one day

George Miller · 07-30-2016, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonemarine

George, Im still eyeballing the 470 crank, there are a couple on e bay right now....
never know, I might race you up that hill one day

Go for it, I have been beat up the hill before. But I have won a few times also. I will give it ever thing I got but, if some one else wins that is ok.

The first time I ran a race with a old dirt track car, I was 18 I came in second. I was mad at myself, I though I should have beat that old man with a 51 Plymouth. But he won fair and square.

George Miller · 07-30-2016, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aonemarine

George, Im still eyeballing the 470 crank, there are a couple on e bay right now....
never know, I might race you up that hill one day

Did you check the length, does it look like it will fit, if so go for it.I think You said they were good cranks.

aonemarine · 07-30-2016, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Go for it, I have been beat up the hill before. But I have won a few times also. I will give it ever thing I got but, if some one else wins that is ok.

The first time I ran a race with a old dirt track car, I was 18 I came in second. I was mad at myself, I though I should have beat that old man with a 51 Plymouth. But he won fair and square.

well, its always better to be beat up the hill, than down the hill

seriously though I wish I could get a hold of one of these cranks without dropping a couple bucks on it.... Its just that my interest has been sparked, and I have high hopes it could work out...

aonemarine · 07-30-2016, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Did you check the length, does it look like it will fit, if so go for it.I think You said they were good cranks.

going strictly from memory...close I think...but my memory isnt what it once was...

George Miller · 09-26-2016, 03:48 PM

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Well I got a new cam for this engine. Of course it has to be made to fit. Shorten. and put a drive gear for the oil pump in the middle of cam. Also machine off the extra lobs. For got to take pictures, maybe tomorrow.

Also made a adapter to run a dist off the front but, pointing up like on a flathead Ford V8. That improved how it ran. It has a vacuum and mechanical advance.

I did have it running real good, so decided to put in a better cam.

10-05-2015, 03:29 PM	#4
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Ok I will take them after each operation. Also I will be using 283 Chev pistons.

10-05-2015, 03:30 PM	#5
super flat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: west bend wi Posts: 314	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George, Whittle away and lots of pictures please! Gary __________________ I am usually relatively happy------Gary

10-05-2015, 04:08 PM	#6
Cockshutt Kid Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 81	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Would love to see more about the crank installation also. Is that a timing chain that I see? That looks real interesting.

10-05-2015, 04:09 PM	#7
Vicky Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 235	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine I'm watching, interesting

10-05-2015, 04:16 PM	#9
flatford39 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 499	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Please keep the pics coming. Are you building a racing motor for the salt flats???

10-05-2015, 03:21 PM	#2
Juggler Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Phoenix AZ/Bath UK Posts: 481	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Interest here Pics please Mr Miller

10-05-2015, 04:58 PM	#12
JohnTee Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Clinton, Tennessee Posts: 11	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Thanks for this post Mr. Miller. How about some specs on the crankshaft. Been trying for some time to find one like this. Never thought to look at chev as the source.

10-05-2015, 05:21 PM	#13
Rex_A_Lott Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Upstate South Carolina Posts: 794	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine NIce! Never seen anybody whittle a rod out of barstock. Good Luck

10-05-2015, 05:41 PM	#14
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Im most curious how you handled the cam lobe timing.

10-05-2015, 06:51 PM	#17
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine It looks like the center lines of #2 and #3 journals may be offset from the bores? I'm curious how you will handle that. Ron W

10-05-2015, 07:30 PM	#19
AL in NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Upstate New York Posts: 1,160	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George, I don't think you can get a "smooth" firing order using the V8 90 degree crank. Depending on how you set up the valve timing, a 720 degree firing cycle would go 180-90-180-270 or 180-270-180-90. You can't get 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation between each of the 4 cylinders in the firing cycle. Seems to me the engine would run ruff. __________________ AL in NY

10-05-2015, 07:46 PM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Yep, as Al said..........I wonder if it will sound like a pair of John Deere tractors running together? It will be interesting..........as well as a lot of work. What is the stroke?

10-05-2015, 09:19 PM	#23
old car guy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: tampa fl Posts: 194	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George very interesting project it doesn't matter that it can't be done only that you do it. All the fun is always what wasn't or could not work , was to make it yours good bad indifferent it's still a cool project . Keep the pictures rolling. __________________ old car guy

10-06-2015, 10:21 AM	#26
100IH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 970	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Just as a side note, Buick 231 1975-77 v-6, made an odd fire engine that was somewhat rough at idle but very smooth on the highway. At the same time but for a longer duration, they made the "same" engine an even fire version. REALLY ROUGH was when a tech put on the wrong dist. cap. I drove them both as a dealer mechanic and I preferred the odd one.

10-06-2015, 10:39 AM	#27
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,087	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine A friend of mine ran a 5 cyl. hemi V8 at the Lakes to get into a certain cubic inch class. He said it did idle oddly but was smooth under power and higher RPM. Your project is interesting but I think you'll find the torque way down because of the smaller cubic inches.

10-06-2015, 02:05 PM	#31
rowens55 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: woodland Ca Posts: 333	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Some you fellas and your engineering skills NEVER ceases to amaze me!!! WAY kool project!! Rowen __________________ Alive n kickin n mostly kickin!

10-06-2015, 03:14 PM	#34
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,031	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine What Chevy engine are the crank and cam out of? Charlie Stephens

10-06-2015, 04:54 PM	#36
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine It's a very exciting project! I wish you the best with it. It seems there is no limit to what we will do to use the model A block. Ron W

10-07-2015, 04:14 AM	#37
colin1928 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australa Melbourne Posts: 878	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George do you still have the engine with the 455 head ?

10-07-2015, 04:49 AM	#38
Charlville Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: West Berkshire, United Kingdom Posts: 368	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Very interesting, keep it coming __________________ Kevin Flood West Berkshire UK Member MAFCGB, VHRA, SAH, Brooklands Trust Sporadic progress on My 1929 Sport Coupe can be found here along with my blog http://automotiveamerican.com/

10-07-2015, 10:37 AM	#40
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Here is a first off Model T 5 main block before being fully machined. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1444223576

10-07-2015, 10:46 AM	#41
Herb Kephart Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Glen Mills PA Posts: 5	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George VERY interested in this--and have a couple questions. You moved the main bearing stud centers out to an area where the rib in the block is thin--what did you do about this? Also what do you intend to do about the misalignment of the lifter holes with the respective cam lobe? Also, I wonder why you bored the big end of the rods on your lathe? I always did it in the mill, to insure parallelism of the hole, with the just bored wrist pin hole--neglecting inevitable table rock. Wondering also if you did the line boring your self? I have line bored the mains on both Ford and Chevy fours on the Bridgeport with a truly Mickey Mouse rig--but the reground crank spins in the inset bearings--so I was happy. The table is longer than your Moog, admit ably. Looked for a photo of this, but I guess that it was on film, and now is lost in a one of many boxes. Herb Kephart

10-07-2015, 01:34 PM	#43
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Also, I wonder why you bored the big end of the rods on your lathe? To me it is easier faster, no tapper when bored, more rigid, so no chatter. I always did it in the mill, to insure parallelism of the hole, with the just bored wrist pin hole The fixture on the lathe makes sure it has no twist. parallels between face plate and part make sure it is square. Then you can check it with a indicator for final check. Wondering also if you did the line boring your self? Yes made my own machine. use on the mill with a right angle head. I have made 3 sets of 7075 rods before for the A crank for different kinds of pistons. They worked real well.

10-08-2015, 08:44 AM	#47
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,463	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George, Your cerebral and machine skills are fantastic. __________________ Bob Bidonde

10-08-2015, 09:05 AM	#48
holdover Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway Posts: 674	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Now that is engineering, and innovation.

10-10-2015, 06:47 PM	#53
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Well I'm not sure how much weight you would save, depending on what kind of steel. You would have to make the alum bigger to have the same strength. 7075 is about 70,000 for tensile strength. If I was racing I would want steel like 4340. Like most metals there are lots of grades and types of steel and alum.

10-15-2015, 08:16 PM	#56
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine The rods look very nice! How does the weight compare to stock? Ron W

10-15-2015, 08:50 PM	#57
hale1776 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Connecticut Posts: 130	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Reminds me of the Donovon Engine also 5 Main bearings http://www.modelaparts.net/hiperf.html/donovansem.html

10-16-2015, 12:11 AM	#59
johnneilson Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W Posts: 1,055	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine George, 7075T6 is much stronger than 6061T6 tensile and yield. on the order of 1.6~1.8 x __________________ As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

10-17-2015, 12:05 AM	#63
old car guy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: tampa fl Posts: 194	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine You are really doing a fantastic job on the whole project. How many hours do you have in the machining of the rods. They are a thing of beauty from the pictures that you have shown us . How much time do you figure you will have in the whole engine project. I appalaud you on the job you are doing. . And I hope that the running engine will be as fantastic as your work. Congratulation on a superb job. __________________ old car guy

10-17-2015, 07:33 AM	#64
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Thanks for the good words. How many hours. I did not keep up with the hours, but I have about 30 hours in the rods. But with a CNC mill it would be much faster. I did it the way we would have done it 40 years ago. The engine is just some thing I wanted to do. I think it will work well with my home built cylinder head. But it will be different. Like Tom says it will sound like two two cylinder John Deere's running. They were odd fire also. Last edited by George Miller; 10-17-2015 at 09:08 AM.

10-17-2015, 10:10 AM	#67
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Looks like the relief for the head of the bolts leaves a small cross section? I hope that won't be too weak? Ron W

10-17-2015, 12:35 PM	#68
just plain bill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 397	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine I have a set of model A REM Al rods and they are heavier than stock model A rods. Bob told me that he used the same blank for his rods and just bored the B's larger. When the A rods didn't sell he just bored them out to B size. I'm thinking of boring my set out to B.

10-17-2015, 03:50 PM	#70
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine I've got my fingers crossed for you! Ron W

10-28-2015, 10:37 PM	#73
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: 5 main, chev, crankModel A engine Hey George, Hm, I can not see small pic details...even with my CVS glasses. Your pics will not enlarge as per usual. Maybe just me/my beloved puter..ha ! Thanks for sharing your skills/talent/pictures.