Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-25-2021, 04:54 PM   #1
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

While getting ready for Hershey, I found a few spare starters. One I know that came off a '51 F1. This one has a front bearing plate that is approx. 3/4" thick.

The one I'm planning to use on my motor, has a front plate of approx. 3/8".

I was always under the assumption that starters can be used from '32-'53.

Does anyone know the difference of the starters with the "thick" front bearing plate vs. those with the thinner ones?

Thanks,
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 06:39 PM   #2
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 4,543
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

The ones with the thick plate also use a shorter case and I assume armature. Less torque I would guess, I always try to avoid them. Not sure what they came on originally
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-25-2021, 07:00 PM   #3
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Ford-O-Matic equipped vehicles have a thick front starter plate.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg starters.JPG (186.0 KB, 203 views)
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

Last edited by 51 MERC-CT; 09-25-2021 at 07:10 PM.
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 07:03 PM   #4
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
Ford-O-Matic equipped vehicles have a thick front starter plate.
This is a two bolt starter like a "regular" one. As mentioned, I pulled it off a F1 pick up.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 07:08 PM   #5
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,937
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Thick plate through 1941, then the thin plate from there forward.
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 07:12 PM   #6
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
This is a two bolt starter like a "regular" one. As mentioned, I pulled it off a F1 pick up.
Ford-O-Matic starters are two bolt.
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 07:44 PM   #7
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,070
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Mike,


When was the back plate changed; was that also post '41?
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 07:55 PM   #8
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
Ford-O-Matic starters are two bolt.
I'm thinking of a 6 cly case. Thanks for the correction.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 07:56 PM   #9
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Is one preferred over another?
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 08:56 PM   #10
fordyford
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 191
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

I have to add to the confusion. The drive end is the rear end NOT the front,
fordyford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 09:16 PM   #11
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Is one preferred over another?
If one is indeed a Ford-O-Matic starter it will have a longer shaft and different bendix and tooth count. It would be preferred for the automatic.
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

Last edited by 51 MERC-CT; 09-25-2021 at 09:24 PM.
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 09:40 PM   #12
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT View Post
If one is indeed a Ford-O-Matic starter it will have a longer shaft and different bendix and tooth count. It would be preferred for the automatic.
Yes, Bendix was an odd looking thing. If anyone needs a FOM bendix, I have one free for taking.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2021, 10:39 PM   #13
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,816
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Is one preferred over another?

not in my book, whilst the body lengths differ depending on which end plate is used, the field windings and armatures remain the same, so functionally, both types operate the same.
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 04:52 AM   #14
fortyonerag
Senior Member
 
fortyonerag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 539
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

I'll add to the confusion (it's the internet - someone has to). I was working on a flathead starter for a mate a while back (I didn't get pics sorry). It has the electrical connection stud on the front plate, not the side body of the starter.

What made me really notice was that the armature shaft and bearing was larger than a regular starter. Bendix was different too. It was on a flathead powered hotrod and the owner didn't know what the starter originally came from. I wound up fitting a regular starter as I couldn't refurb this unit.

What did it come from - LZ, truck, tractor, or what?

Last edited by fortyonerag; 09-26-2021 at 05:03 AM.
fortyonerag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 07:14 AM   #15
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 8,937
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Mike,


When was the back plate changed; was that also post '41?
Dave, I was "speaking" of the rear plate. My mistake...
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you".
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 11:03 AM   #16
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Another note: You can use the "thin plate" version as part of creating an easy 12V starter setup (using parts from a later Ford V8 starter).

You use the later 12V case and field coils and insert the original armature and thin front plate and you have a nice 12V original looking starter for about $80. I just did this for a 302 CI flathead I helped a friend build.

It took about 1/2 hour to 'Frankenstein' the new starter together - based on a quality 12V rebuilt one from NAPA and my original 6V flathead starter.

Here is a link to the 12V starter from NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search...609&referer=v2
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 11:36 AM   #17
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Another note: You can use the "thin plate" version as part of creating an easy 12V starter setup (using parts from a later Ford V8 starter).

You use the later 12V case and field coils and insert the original armature and thin front plate and you have a nice 12V original looking starter for about $80. I just did this for a 302 CI flathead I helped a friend build.

It took about 1/2 hour to 'Frankenstein' the new starter together - based on a quality 12V rebuilt one from NAPA and my original 6V flathead starter.

Here is a link to the 12V starter from NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search...609&referer=v2

Thanks, Dale. I have that 12v unit as well and I am looking to do the same.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 01:02 PM   #18
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,816
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

fortyonerag, Over the years I've built up several 12 volt starter motors to suit V8's. A few of them I have built from big Lucas starters; they are probably out of trucks, anyway, they share the same physical dimensions as regular V8starters, I have to modify the armature shaft to accept V8 bendix, however, the electrical connection on these is through the front plate, not the side as in V8 units...one other [good] feature of these is the end of the arm shaft protrudes through the front plate and is machined into a square...should the starter ever jam, it is easy to turn the armature to disengage the jammed bendix drive.
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 06:57 AM   #19
fortyonerag
Senior Member
 
fortyonerag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 539
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Brian, yes, it did have a square machined into the end shaft. Thought at the time what a great idea. A Lucas truck starter most likely.

Many thanks for this.
fortyonerag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 08:16 AM   #20
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 10,070
Default Re: Differences in flathead V8 starter front bearing plates

Mike,


It was the end of the motor that is exposed when installed that I was wondering about (the end with the brushes for the armature).



Thanks.
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04 AM.