ID Issue with a 1932 Ford

[toms32]

Hey Guys I need some help from a person that is very familiar with 32 Fords, Today i went to look at a 32 Ford roadster project. The frame appeared to be original 32 however the body was missing and the person had a 32 Brookville body to go with it. After we talked he told me that the car originally had a 32 Cabriolet body on it. When I went to look at the ID number I did not notice any number in front of the frame on the left top side in front on the firewall, The person gave me a cabriolet body tag and told me that that would take care of the ID number, i have never had a Cabriolet but I always thought that the ID number on the frame and the body tag were two different things and that ever 32 frame had the number in the spot I indicated above UNLESS where ever the cab body went they used the paperwork on the frame I looked, Any help most appreciated Tom

[JSeery]

Was the body sitting on the frame? The Serial Numbers is in three different locations, two under the body. The body type (and tag) should have nothing to do with the frame number, which would match the engine/transmission assembly number. Does he have a title? What number is on the title? If no title, you will (in a lot of states) have to have a bill of sale trail back at least several people. You really need the frame number.

[Newc]

Some frame numbers are so faint that it takes real work to read them. Two types 4cyl and V8 Newc

[deuce lover]

Sounds like the numbers on the frame were ground off.Might need a forensic test kit to lift the numbers. From what I know the body tag number was only associated with the body,and not stamped on the frame. Another possibility is the frame is or was NOS so never stamped (I seriously doubt that).

[deuce_roadster]

Are you sure the frame is not a remake? Maybe the cabriolet body had been put on a remake frame. Pictures of the frame and crossmembers would be a help, especially the fasteners holding the crossmembers in.

[cas3]

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Someone ground off the numbers to use the title on something else. Look for the other numbers as JSEARY posted

[toms32]

Many thanks for the information Guys Tom

[Mart]

Original frame? Maybe. Maybe not. What leads you to make the statement it looks like an original frame?

Any welding evident? All rivetted construction? K member intact? Where the Firewall bolts down, the middle of the 3 holes has a distinctive square depression around it. Was that in place?
Frame strengtheners around the rear kickup area? (not on all)
Evidence of damage above the rear axle if no strengtheners present?

The most likely scenario for no numbers is that it is a repro frame, hence the detailed questions.
If an original frame why no numbers? Were the numbers transferred to a repro frame so the paperwork could be used on another vehicle? Any evidence of grinding/filling?

A very fishy situation. The body number is nothing to do with vehicle ID. The frame is everything.

Gearbox present? Original 32 box? Does it have a number? (long shot)

If potentially spending big bucks make sure everything is kosher before committing.

[Charlie Stephens]

You might try telling the guy selling the car that the DMV/police have a way to lift the numbers. They use it for serial numbers on guns. If he gets as white as a sheet or starts talking real fast you know there is a problem. Be sure he fixes the problem before it becomes your problem.

Charlie Stephens

[HD]

I have a 32 3 W that I know for a fact has not been driven since 1937, the orig VIN near the steering box was faint, I used battery acid with a acid brush it brought the VIN back enough to read it. and it was the correct VIN that the seller gave me, I applied for a title and got it no problem

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. toms32 have you read this from VanPelt Sales on serial numbers?http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

Make sure you go to the bottom and see the diagram where the numbers are expected to be (note the diagram is labeled for 38-39 frames).

The serial number was initially stamped into the top of the transmission. This number was then stamped (hopefully in 3 places?) onto the frame when the engine/trans was married to the frame.

ADDING: Engines have no numbering sequence unless they have been stamped after they left Dearborn. Transmissions and frames do. This reminds us why castings/stampings/bolt-on's of engine blocks are not concrete data in ID'ing them. Also why the term 'numbers matching' can't apply more than a trans/frame combo. No engine in the picture. They were sorta like oil filters to us today, switch 'em early and often.

The fella who you spoke to had an interesting story. I'd go with the assumption that he doesn't know what he's got in terms of original 32 Ford.

[John R]

Tom,
The serial number just in front of the firewall foot is often very hard to read since it is somewhat exposed to the elements. It is usually very close to the inside edge of the top flange. If it has been ground off, there might be some clues in terms of surface finish, thickness, etc.


The serial number was supposed to be stamped in 3 places on the LH frame but very often there is only one or two. (My Tudor has two.) The second stamping is about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way back from the firewall to where the frame starts to kickup over the rear axle and the third stamping is near the top of the kickup. The quality of the stamping is highly variable - often the stamps are very faint. Look hard for those other stampings but they might not be there.

Even if you found the number, you'd need to determine whether it is free an clear (and not used on whatever frame that cabriolet body was set on - the most probable situation)
.

As others have said, that cabriolet body tag is useless for title work.


Good Luck,
John

[DavidG]

The one exception to the three number location instruction issued by Dearborn is on frames destined for commercial vehicles and drive-away chassis where only the forward-most number was to be stamped.