Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2021, 06:00 PM   #1
twinjoan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,257
Default 1937 CYLINDER Heads

Trying to verify manufacture of 37 Ford cylinder heads. These heads have raised firing order on them. The question is: are they genuine Ford or other manufacture. Look forward to response. Please advise me at twinjoan@gmail.com. Elmer
twinjoan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 06:49 PM   #2
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,050
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

I have a Ford Motor Company of Canada 'Fast Moving Parts Catalogue 1928-1949' -yes, correct spelling, which has an illustration of that very same cylinder head on page 144, with the description 77 6050 A head- cylinder- R.H. and L.H.-cast iron [type 3], 2 req'd, Pass and trucks- except 60 H.P. 37-38, bus 37.
These heads were manufactured by Ford as replacement heads. Cars did not come off of the production line with them fitted.
Actually, every one of these heads I've ever seen [lots!!], has the part number cast into the heads as 77E 6050
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-12-2021, 07:05 PM   #3
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,279
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

.

Actually, the heads with the firing order are Ford "Pilot" heads. Ford "Pilots" were the first post-war European, large Fords, beginning in 1947. Dagenham cast it's own version of the '37 Model 78, 221 cu. in. engine, and these heads were one of the changes. Apparently, gazillions of these heads ended-up as surplus here in the States years ago, and were in fact used as "replacement" heads. The engine in our '37 coupe has a pair of these heads on it. DD


__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE

Last edited by V8COOPMAN; 06-12-2021 at 07:18 PM.
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 08:51 PM   #4
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,050
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

coop, I don't know so much....Whilst it is true V8 Pilots came from the Dagenham factory equipped with these heads, why is it, that Ford Canada offered these heads as replacements, prior to manufacture of the Pilot?, I believe these heads were used on 21 stud engines [as in bren gun carriers etc], during WW2.
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2021, 12:00 AM   #5
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,279
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
coop, I don't know so much....Whilst it is true V8 Pilots came from the Dagenham factory equipped with these heads, why is it, that Ford Canada offered these heads as replacements, prior to manufacture of the Pilot?, I believe these heads were used on 21 stud engines [as in bren gun carriers etc], during WW2.

Brian.....What do I know too, ya know? It seems that SOMETIMES, some of us that care to take the time to comment on some of this kind of stuff tend to go with the best(?) source of info that we can come-up with. Some of these sources are ancient, some are contemporary and questionably suspect, while others still are foreign in terms of origination. I don't have access to the Canadian Ford ("?") literature that you seem to be getting your facts from, and therefore, I can't see the publish date, or which printing edition it all comes from. And who knows.....it could very well be TRUE SCOOP! I would reasonably have to ask the same question you put forth here, considering what you reference.

Me....I like this old junk, too! I TRY to learn as much as possible, probably just like you do, and I've come to respect your knowledge, as well as your manner of sharing such with us in these pages over the long haul. I can only say that I don't know so much either, and end many of my posts with something like ..... "But what the heck do I know?" And I'm serious, too! I only try to keep my eyes and ears open, looking for that last bit of info....until I run-across a better-sounding source that suggests that the last one MIGHT be full of rhetorical BS. Nevertheless, you know that these stories and old wives' tales have been bantered-around for 80-odd years now, some of them even close to being true.

I had heard for years that these "firing order" heads were Ford "Pilot" heads. This identical question came-up here on the 'Barn about two weeks ago, so I went snooping-around for a plausible answer, and the best I was able to do at the time was "Wikipedia". And here is what "Wiki" says, verbatim:


"The Pilot was the first large post-War British Ford. It was based on the pre-War 22 hp (16 kW) Model 62 chassis, and was initially offered in 1946 with the 2227 cc side-valve V8 60 engine from the 1939 model.[6] That engine proved inadequate for the vehicle size and was quickly replaced by the E71A Dagenham 'Enfo' (English Ford) 30hp engine. Dagenham cast its own version of the US 1937 Model 78, 21 stud, 30 indicated hp, 221 cubic inch/3.6 litre block and probably all ancillaries, most of which had Enfo part numbers. The E71A engine had a number of differences from the 1937 US engine. The block had one frost (core) plug at the rear on each side, just below the heads, the heads had the firing order cast in, the crankshaft had a long snout, allowing for the fitting of double pulley fan belts for trucks, and big end bearings were flanged 1/4 shells (4 per journal). The sump was also different, because it had a pear-shaped locating hole to accommodate the Lucas starter. Exhaust manifolds had a flowing design, which was an improvement on US versions."


So, THAT is where my story came from this time around. One more tid-bit of info that I've heard more than once is that "CARPENTER" imported huge numbers of these things from across the pond as surplus. True scoop? Who the heck knows....certainly not me, for sure! And with that disclaimer, I'd surely like to know a little more about the authenticity of SOME of the info contained in your information source, along with the print date. I'd be willing to bet that "DavidG" would have a pretty good idea on this subject. With that, just imagine if some of us had the REAL stories to ALL of this old Ford intrigue. YOU and I already know that there are some pretty wild stories as to just how some of this old crap really did come about. I guess that above all, we need to open-mindedly take some of this stuff with a grain of salt. DD






........
__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2021, 09:57 AM   #6
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 423
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
The block had one frost (core) plug at the rear on each side, just below the heads, the heads had the firing order cast in, the crankshaft had a long snout, allowing for the fitting of double pulley fan belts for trucks, and big end bearings were flanged 1/4 shells (4 per journal).

FWIW 15+ years ago I bought a core engine that had those heads on it. It didn't have any of the characteristics listed above, it was otherwise a standard 37-38 engine, core plugs on the pan rail, std. crank nose. Of course there was no way to know if they were added later but the rest of the engine appeared to be untouched from new, std. bearings and bores, etc.

I was curious about the heads and asked everyone I knew who had dealt with old Fords, only answer I got was that engines with those heads came from Joblot as new war surplus.
Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2021, 11:26 AM   #7
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,279
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyodyne View Post
I was curious about the heads and asked everyone I knew who had dealt with old Fords, only answer I got was that engines with those heads came from Joblot as new war surplus.

BRIAN .....THIS story sounds pretty plausible, and even lends a lot of credibility to the time frames of YOUR take on this subject. There seems to be just one COMMON detail to all of this that we're still missing. It just sounds so odd that Dagenham would wait until 1947 (my hokey story) to begin making these things, especially in such HUGE, extra numbers. DD
__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2021, 08:39 AM   #8
21stud
Junior Member
 
21stud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Finland
Posts: 26
Default Re: 1937 CYLINDER Heads

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinjoan View Post
Trying to verify manufacture of 37 Ford cylinder heads. These heads have raised firing order on them. The question is: are they genuine Ford or other manufacture. Look forward to response. Please advise me at twinjoan@gmail.com. Elmer
Yes, genuine Ford they are. I have allways believe these 77 firing order heads are from Pilot but maybe that's not whole story?

anyway, here's picture about Dagenhamn 21stud block rear core plugs.
pic quality is bad, I have that block in tight spot behind lathe
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 21stud coreplug.jpg (31.4 KB, 54 views)
21stud is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 AM.