Heating Rivets

[Res731]

I am looking to try to use rivets in my front cross member. I dont have an Acetylene setup but I have a small portable MAPP/Oxygen torch I have used to heat bolts etc. when needed.

Anyone know if this would be sufficient to heat the Rivets to be able to set them? If not I will go with bolts and be done with it.

Regards

Rudy

[H. L. Chauvin]

I've successfully installed rivets with MAPP/Oxygen on the front cross member an other places.

But the most important challenge with any riveting is devising a "very solid" bucking bar to place behind all of the hard-to-get- to rivets, especially at the front cross member where they attach to the frame.

[Brentwood Bob]

I used a acetylene torch, a rack to hold the torch, and 2 guys. There is some effort to get the rivets countersunk as original, but it looks good. You need to fab some rivet bucks also. Drink the beer after the work is done.
Bolting up the crossmember expect rust under it.
Metal prep and prime either way you go.
Bob

[Mitch//pa]

Invest in a small oxy / acet. Set up they come in handy

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Mitch.
Years ago I sold my small tanks and carrier for $50 and bought the large tanks and cart. I don't use the roach much anymore so at the last swap meet I bought another set of small tanks and carrier for $45.

[miff]

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The way I did it was to bolt the cross member in place . Then heat the rivet, remove a bolt then hammer it home . I found the hard part supporting the other end of the rivet. Had to reheat several times to get it right . I used oxy/ acet set.

[Res731]

Mitch/ Tom. When you say small would those portable units at lowes suffice. I've been watching craigslist for a while and no luck. I did miss a large set with tanks at a garage sale by half hour. The guy sold it for 25 bucks.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you look on ebay for 10 and 20 cubic foot tanks with carrier, you'll see what I bought at the swap meet.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Res731

Anyone know if this would be sufficient to heat the Rivets to be able to set them?

Rudy, my experiences are that it isn't the heat that will set them correctly, ...but more about the gun (-or hammer) used to buck the rivet. The MAPP gas will be fine as you are just wanting to make the rivet slightly pliable. Using a 2X or 3X rivet gun is the trick. It does not take a very heavy bucking bar with a rivet gun.

The 2nd part of heating a rivet is that most torches actually produce a fanned flame which heats everything around the rivet too. Concentrating the heat solely on the rivet itself (pictured below) until the heat is transferred thru the shank of the rivet is the correct way to prep the rivet for bucking.

.

[Russ/40]

The only problem with MAP is flame size control. You want a pencil flame allowing you to put the heat in the rivet and not so much in the surrounding frame. You want to get the rivet hot quickly. As to bolts, it is greatly discouraged not only for proper clamping issues, but for proper fender fitment. That bolt head will not allow the fender to sit down nicely on the frame.

[Brentwood Bob]

Good point Russ about the bolts.
I will add that I used a rope over the rafters when I attempted this without help.
Bob

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: Rivets can be very successfully driven cold, with hammers and bucking bars ..... i.e., if one wants to experiment and learn.

About the same as years ago when so many played pianos & musical instruments.

Today, most do not care to experiment, and most never care to learn ....... these modern type of guys have no desire take the time to become talented and always have to resort to softening rivets with an acetylene torch and resort to playing music with a radio. LOL

[Mad Mac]

I have also had success driving rivets without any heat, but on bodywork, rather than on a chassis.

[captndan]

When doing rivets do it right or don't do it at all. No shortcuts. When you're going down the road don't worry if you used enough heat on the rivet.

[john in illinois]

A friend uses an arc welder with a small cutting rod. He puts the rivet in and touches the shank with the cutting electrode-available at HF. It turns the rivet shank cherry red. Drive it in the normal mannor. I was amazed.

John

[Res731]

Finally installed the rivets, heated them up in place. I just used a hammer on the ones on the top of the rail which worked easy enough. For the round headed ones I used a Rivet hammer and the rivet tools from Snyders.

IMG_1982.jpgIMG_1981.jpg

[midgetracer]

Brent was right in post 9. I fought with rivets using a muffler tool until I purchased a 2X rivet gun. It was a bit pricey for a used gun, but it made riveting actually fun. Good bucking is also essential.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I still need to find a 2X gun.
I always worry about how to get paint in the joint so rust doesn't develop.
Maybe after the frame is painted, just let oil soak in the joint.

[midgetracer]

I got mine on Ebay used for about $300. I think some of the military surplus places may have a better deal, but I wanted one that was guaranteed or I could return it.

[Res731]

I got a 3x rivet gun on eBay for 50 I think. It was aircraft surplus and has no issues. Hardest part was getting to the side of the rail ones. The crossmember gets in the way to get any straight shot at it.

[EHERRICK]

Check Aircraft Tool Supply
You can get new gulp so under $200.00
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/se...ORY=RIVET+GUNS
Good luck

[Kevin in NJ]

The X series are for aircraft riveting and there is nothing wrong with them. They give a known impact to properly set aluminum rivets. The guys who do aircraft have rules on how they have to set a rivet. They have a 1/2" piston if I remember correctly and the number before the X relates to the length it moves.
With aluminum rivets they work harden quick and take time to reach full hardness depending on the type of aluminum or something like that. I do not have an A&P, just work close with guys often building aircraft stuff.

The thing to look for at flea markets are the longer barrel air hammers. The automotive long throw air hammers have more energy per hit. They seem to use a 5/8" piston and different length barrels. They can work with more authority and do well on freeing very stuck parts.

Typically either type of gun can be pricey. But sometimes you luck out if you know what your are looking at as I have stumbled into a few real real cheap at garage sales and local flea markets.