Harmon Collins build thread ...

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by spendingtheirinheritance

You have one H-C unit there that fires 7 cylinders like magic. However #1 cylinder gets zero spark. You can take #1 wire off the plug and put it to your tongue and get nothing--it's a very accurate test. I've changed caps and wires, cleaned everything and still #1 finds an alternative ground. Perhaps hooking up your sparkplug bar will help find the answer.

You began this thread asking if we really need this H-C dual coil set up. Practically no. The car runs great with the crab. However the car itself needs the set up.

It's a 32 roadster, Merc crank, ported and relieved, pre-war slingshot manifold, cheater heads, 37 LaSalle transmission, Culver City Halibrand quickie, Ed Stewart dropped axle, Lincolns on all four corners, and a killer set Of Halibrand six-pin knock-off smoothies to ride on.

Cass yer next on the list will get er done .......................

[Shaun1162]

Great thread, very informative. They certainly are cool looking!

[Shaun1162]

That roadster looks great too!

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Well would ya look at that ! The postman delivered this Harmon Colling unit with two ford coils and a new rotor and secondary spark ring !! Pretty slick unit ??????????
Hopefully i will get some secondary testing done today ??

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Ok its monday and i am back on the build . Got the unit spining in the machine , hooked up the twin Bosch blue coils for a quick look at the spark output without the plug wires . ( secondary testing is next )f , both sides of the primary are kinking some good spark out the coil wire and seem very stable with rpm.
So NOW i got to look at the firing order and get the plug wires on my new secondary spark plug bar .........news at 11 as they used to say ..

[FLTHDCPE]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

[IMG]New brass condensers[/IMG]

Here they are.!! New Condensers installed and running. Waiting for a test Ride.
Thanks "Tubman"

[FLTHDCPE]

Lets try this again, Here's the pic's.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by FLTHDCPE

[IMG]New brass condensers[/IMG]

Here they are.!! New Condensers installed and running. Waiting for a test Ride.
Thanks "Tubman"

You're welcome, Steve. I'm sure these will work fine for you. I have to say that it was a pleasure sending them to a guy with name like yours. In the words of Wayne and Garth, "I'm not worthy!".

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Ok back to it , planning on finishing up this collins unit today .....

check primary both terminals on machine .......good

install coil and wire each to fire secondary voltage !!!!!

Note that most problems are i the high voltage side of the units !!!

Note these plug wire firing order ( and the changes) , open for discussion , one of you suck-squeeze--bang -- blows guys need to look this over and respond !!!!!

Thanks flthdcpe for the diagrams

[Automotive Stud]

I'm still curious to hear what you think about the reproduced rotor and center cap that was being offered a while back? I had a set but wound up letting it go.

[Terry,OH]

The HC does not change fireing order it is still the same as the typical Ford distributor. Yes the plug wires connect to different terminals on the cap as indicated. The reproduction rotors and intermediate cap are very good.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Automotive Stud

I'm still curious to hear what you think about the reproduced rotor and center cap that was being offered a while back? I had a set but wound up letting it go.

I have used a couple o Dzus units with good results , ( he passed ya know) so they are no longer available .......

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

While i dont disagree with Terry Ohio , we need to be carefull how its stated . Yes the firing order doesnt change BUT the sequence :: ie comp vs ex sure does .
If you use the factory wiring placement you will loose a cylinder or two???

Now lets discuss my last few weeks and some responding to what we have learned .
To start with the ignition system is primary and secondary .

Primary is usually 12 volts ( maybe 6 ) and has a inductive kick when the coil fires of lets say 200-250 volts!!! If the secondary has a problem then this voltage is higher . ( note when i worked for Allen Test products our testers would flag a problem as soon as you hooked the machine up IF this voltage was over 250 volts .
I had a hot rod 66 chevy truck i used in class and this primary voltage would jump to 450 volts as soon as you opened up a spark plug wire !!!

Another fact : There is no such thing as a perfect insulator !!! IF voltage is high enough ( reason for fence around transformers etc . ) Voltage will travel thru the air if the voltage is high enough!!!

A open secondary will ALWAYS go to ground somewhere in the circuit even though you dont see ( or feel) it ! And once the voltage has found that path it will do it again if need to do so !!!!!!!!

All of these dual coil v8 units have a problem with these facts !!

I found that when i tried to fire only four of the eight plugs spark would in fact fire all eight terminals at the cap and sometimes all eight plugs would fire with only one primary wire hooked up.......

So my suggestions are :

Use the harmon collins firing sequence

Wipe all wires caps etc with wd 40 ( a water dispersant )

Use solid core wires with good connections

dont run a open circuit

Make sure all wiring is in good shape and use the largest wiring you can ..

More as i finsih my next two and load them down .......

[Zeke3]

Professor, will this be on the final exam?

I don't have a HC ignition, but it is interesting to learn about them.

[Bored&Stroked]

The Harman Collins firing order (on the cap) is mandatory! The reason is that you have a two-pole rotor, so the firing jumps form side to side as each coils fire.

This changes the plug wiring order on the cap. On all original HC distributors, they remarked the caps by melting a new cylinder number in the four locations that are different.

If you attempt to route your plug wires to match the stock Ford crab cap - you'll have 4 cylinders firing at the wrong time. I learned this the hard way when I built my first flathead race engine at 15 years old. I didn't have a HC cap - didn't think about it - and made plug wires to match the Ford numbers. Tried to start the engine and it backfired so heavily that it blew the oil dip stick out of the pan and hit dear old Mom right in the chest.

So, I knew something was drastically wrong and sat down and looked at the distributor and figured out the issue. Guess I was a fairly smart kid - made sense of it all on my own in about an hour . . . as I guess I didn't want to kill my Mother (who always helped me in the garage!).

I ran an HC distributor for about 3 years on the street - always ran well except for occasional condenser failures. Joe Hunt set mine up for me from the get-go - so at least one knows it was done right. Later on I put a HC Mag on the engine - about the same time the SCoT blower went on . . .

I've got about 4 of them to rebuild - guess I should get started!

Thanks Bubba - great to see your posts!

[mcharley40]

Sorry to hear that

[STAN WHITE]

Bubba A few questions. First I purchased two of your Condensers they are very nice, Very satisfied. My question is on the Blue Bosch 12 volt coils. I understand that they are 3 Ohms and have a built in resister. I think above mentioned that a resistor is not needed with a 3 ohm coil. So I am alittle confused? Also where should I buy 2 ea Bosch coiles . Do you handel that? Plus looks to me that I might have to make a new brkt to hold condensers on a H&C Distributor.Does the length of the wire being longer should I stay with the same Gage? I have not ran this Engine since 1989. I was running it with a H&C Ignition I just bolted it up and it ran great. I might have been over doing it but it would go to 6K rpm No problem. !/4 X5 276 C I. Running a Potvin .425 Cam. Ed Bingly Engine. I also have two new H&C Distributors that I purchaed 35 Years Ago. Might be willing to sell one. Thanks for any info that you can privide. Stan White. 775 265 5333 Gardnerville,Nevada

[34fivewindow]

Originally Posted by STAN WHITE

Bubba A few questions. First I purchased two of your Condensers they are very nice, Very satisfied. My question is on the Blue Bosch 12 volt coils. I understand that they are 3 Ohms and have a built in resister. I think above mentioned that a resistor is not needed with a 3 ohm coil. So I am alittle confused? Also where should I buy 2 ea Bosch coiles . Do you handel that? Plus looks to me that I might have to make a new brkt to hold condensers on a H&C Distributor.Does the length of the wire being longer should I stay with the same Gage? I have not ran this Engine since 1989. I was running it with a H&C Ignition I just bolted it up and it ran great. I might have been over doing it but it would go to 6K rpm No problem. !/4 X5 276 C I. Running a Potvin .425 Cam. Ed Bingly Engine. I also have two new H&C Distributors that I purchaed 35 Years Ago. Might be willing to sell one. Thanks for any info that you can privide. Stan White. 775 265 5333 Gardnerville,Nevada

Here you go Stan

[STAN WHITE]

34 five window, Thanks for the photo brings back many memories! Ed was a good guy very knoelgable person I learned a lot from him. I went up to I think Windsor when he had his Willys there bought him a bottle of Brandy & a box of good Cigars. That was the last time I saw him. I miss talking to him. I have two of his Engines. It was amazing the extensive work he performed on the blocks when building his engines. Mainly on the end exhaust ports! I assume from your location that you know Vern Tardel. Any way I am doing an original 34 3WDW have had it for thirty five years. I looked for one since the early 50s. This car is special to me as it is perfect in every way. Original paint (Black) it has the original stripe in places. No holes drilled no rust. I am doing it as an early 50s car. Give me your e mail and I will send some photos. I was in the Richmond area in my younger days. Stan 775 265 5333

[34fivewindow]

Originally Posted by STAN WHITE

34 five window, Thanks for the photo brings back many memories! Ed was a good guy very knoelgable person I learned a lot from him. I went up to I think Windsor when he had his Willys there bought him a bottle of Brandy & a box of good Cigars. That was the last time I saw him. I miss talking to him. I have two of his Engines. It was amazing the extensive work he performed on the blocks when building his engines. Mainly on the end exhaust ports! I assume from your location that you know Vern Tardel. Any way I am doing an original 34 3WDW have had it for thirty five years. I looked for one since the early 50s. This car is special to me as it is perfect in every way. Original paint (Black) it has the original stripe in places. No holes drilled no rust. I am doing it as an early 50s car. Give me your e mail and I will send some photos. I was in the Richmond area in my younger days. Stan 775 265 5333

Stan..... Ed was my Father's best friends. they grew up and went to school together. I was actually named after him, and spent my spare time at the Speed Shop up until it closed in 1972.

This is the last picture of him and I at his shop at home.......Ed