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07-04-2011, 11:07 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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07-04-2011, 11:13 AM | #22 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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I have also adjusted them until they locked all the wheels, same thing happens, but pedal doesn't go all the way to the floor then, but still too deep on the first jump after bleeding. |
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07-04-2011, 11:19 AM | #23 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
I'll give it an other try, will put things back into place and bleed it like Patrick L / JoeWay suggest. If no air, it might be the mc as Charlie Stephens indicates. I'll be back when I know more. Until then, thanks to all!
Last edited by Steinar; 07-04-2011 at 12:20 PM. |
07-04-2011, 11:32 AM | #24 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
I had the same problem on a 30 roadster and I bled the rear brakes just as Pat L suggusted, it works
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07-04-2011, 12:57 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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07-04-2011, 01:30 PM | #26 | ||
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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I see the scanned images I attached have been reduced in resolution to the point they are barely readable. Here are links to the full-resolution scans: LockheedAdjust1.jpg LockheedAdjust2.jpg Joe
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07-04-2011, 04:18 PM | #27 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
Problems don't usually show up alone, do they? When I took brake parts apart at rear axle, I clamped on a special tool on the flexible tube between the mastercylinder and the front/rear connection, to avoid fluid from leaking out while parts were apart. When I had put everything back in place, I forgot to take off this clamp when we started to bleed the system again. Not much fluid come out at the rear wheel even though my helper was stepping on the pedal as hard as she could. I then remembered the clamp, took it off, but since then the pedal is stuck, does hardly move at all, no fluid is coming through the system. I guess the flexible tube got damaged, so I took it out. I could easily blow through it. So, I guess what happened is, something loosened from the inside of this not so new tubing, and found its way down into the system somewhere else, and clogged it. So I have now one more problem I'll have to look into. But tomorrow I have to prepare for my daughters birthdayparty, so probably won't be much more time for the A until end of week.
But one more question: Is it necessary to have a flexible connection between the mastercylinder on the firewall and the rest of the tubings on the chassis, or could I go with steel tubing all the way from the mc to the wheels? Does the frame twist as much under driving that it could cause stress to the brake tubes if all steel? And, yes, I measured the mc, they're both one inch diameter. |
07-04-2011, 04:24 PM | #28 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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07-04-2011, 04:28 PM | #29 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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07-04-2011, 05:06 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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You have a good feel for this, obviously, and about 27% would be correct for 1-1/8" vs. 1", but the '39-'48 Ford car and light truck master is indeed 1-1/16". I've put brass sleeves in several hundred of them. Depending on whether you calculate up or down, the difference between 1" and 1-1/16" is about 11% or 13%. Depending on the pedal ratio, that would probably be about 1" to 1-1/2"of pedal travel--more travel for the smaller cylinder, as you say. I'd have to check my books before I said for sure, but off the top of my head the first 1-1/8" Ford cylinder was used in mid-'50s cars with power brakes. Joe
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07-04-2011, 05:34 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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You must have the later brakes, called in MOTOR'S "Lockheed [3]", with a single eccentric anchor at the bottom (or for you, the top since your backing plates are upside down). Here are scans of the adjustment procedure. The main difference is that the single eccentric anchor is adjusted for the front shoe only (again, as shown in Vince's photo the rear shoe). If the heel of the forward shoe is not adjusted correctly, you will lose considerable pedal travel as the wheel cylinder tries to push the shoe into contact with the drum--even if the toes of the shoes, controlled by the cams at the sides of the backing plate, seem to be properly adjusted. Joe LockheedAdjust3.jpg LockheedAdjust4.jpg
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1929 Tudor since 1962 Feather River A's Last edited by JoeWay; 07-04-2011 at 05:40 PM. |
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07-04-2011, 06:51 PM | #32 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
Just went through the same problem as you. I switched the cylinders so that bleader is on top. cylinder still on bottom of backing plate. This requires grindint the hole so that the bolts line up with the cilinder. I ground the big hole so that the bolt holes lined up this left a quarter moon shaped hole on the bottom which has not been a problem. I used a master cylinder from a 1967 mustang. We removed the rear line and pluged the master. We then were able tobleed the front brakes. Keep bleeding even when you think you got all the air.WE then hooked up the rear and bleed them. When you bleed rear be very gental when you pump so as not to upsead the front. We then adjusted the brakes. After about 100 miles we bled the front and back with disconecting anything but be very gentle when you pump so as not pumpair from frotn to back and vice versa.We know have very good brakes.Much better than expeced. John
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07-04-2011, 07:04 PM | #33 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
Steinar: On post #31 you mention that M/Cyl is on firewall. If so what kind? Are you utilizing "hanging" pedals? As I read your post I assumed (I know....) that you had a 39-48 M/Cyl mounted under the floor. Not that this has any real thing to do with your bleeding problem, but I think you could get away w/out a "rubber" connection to the frame at this point. When I did my 32 with chev dual resivoir m/cyl (hyd brakes and clutch) I only used a pre-formed tube for the clutch connection, not the brakes.
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07-04-2011, 08:28 PM | #34 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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I think I am going to back out of this discussion since I don't have access to the data I need. Even if I looked up the early Ford (I am sure you are right) I still don't know what the other master cylinder is from. Charlie Stephens |
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07-04-2011, 09:19 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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If you're wondering about my bona fides, check the URL in my signature. Joe P. S. I shouldn't have said I've sleeved "several hundred" of the early Ford cylinders. On reflection, I think probably about 100 is a better number.
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07-04-2011, 10:40 PM | #36 | |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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07-05-2011, 11:13 AM | #37 | ||
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
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I don't recall whether Steinar said his system was functioning acceptably in terms of pedal travel and effort required when he started rebuilding it. If it was, then the mechanical ratio must have been OK. Joe
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08-05-2012, 02:31 PM | #38 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
not to steal the thread , but im having major problems bleeding mine . 1931 ford coupe , 1942 hyd brakes . used a vaccum bleeder , no luck . used the helper old style bleeding ... seems there is no air , but the pedal still goes to the floor . it is firmer than when i started & when pumped it does activate the brakes , but no good pedal . any ideas appreciated . thanks .. steve
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08-05-2012, 02:45 PM | #39 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
Years ago Dave Wilton (mt products) master brake guy, posted on upside down backing plates as i recall it was not recommended?
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08-05-2012, 04:44 PM | #40 |
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Re: Vacuum bleeding hydraulic brakes?
One thing you said that stands out at me,the second pump of the pedal is rock hard.Air=sponge.Liquid=rock.Air compresses,liquid does not.If the pedal gets hard,not spongy,I would call it a travel problem too.
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