Trying To Identify Front Spring...

[jerseyboy]

Hi All,

I just removed the front and rear springs from my 32' woodie.

My questions will be regarding the front spring.

When I removed the spring it dropped down from the cross member and the two or three top leaves fell out. I then noticed that there was just a pin holding the pack together. On further inspection one of the leaves is broken.

I was told this was a 34 replacement spring. The shackles are held in with nylon lock nuts and the bolts do not have holes for cotter pins.

I am mentioning all this because I am wondering if the is the correct spring for the wagon.

It has 10 leaves, measures 32.5 inches along the arch from center of eye to eye, .875 eye(ID),and 1.75 wide.

According to my information, a 32' spring is 30.625 free length.

Look forward to your thoughts.

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!

[Bruce Lancaster]

From memory, square cut ends came in late 1933. Earlier was clipped to a crude V.

[jerseyboy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

From memory, square cut ends came in late 1933. Earlier was clipped to a crude V.

Bruce,
Do you have the dimensions for a 34 front spring?

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!

[Bruce Lancaster]

Well, it would interchange with a '32; same axle dimensions, interchangeable perches, etc.
What are you measuring as "free length"??
If it is eye-to-eye, it is a pretty slippery concept as that dimension will grow when spring sags with age.
Any post-1934 spring would be too long to stuff in there.
A good dimensionally correct spring should set with axles hanging at roughly 45 degrees as installed with car on its tires. Shackles would move toward vertical as spring sags, and there is not much room between the perches for a dimensionally incorrect spring.

[DavidG]

Twelve leaves 1 3/4" wide except the top leaf which was 1 5/8" wide. All but the bottom leaf had three-sided tapered leaf ends. The number 5 leaf had a hole near each end in which the nipple in the bottom center of the clamp fit. The clamp bottom ends were originally riveted together with a long 1/4" rivet, not bolted together. The center bolt that held all of the leaves together was 5/16-18 x 2 3/4" and it had a square head that fit in the corresponding hole in the front cross member. If you're a purist, the nut for the center bolt was originally square, but once the spring is installed, it is not visible.

The main leaf eyes were of a size to accommodate a 7/8" x 1 3/4" spring shackle stud with an overall length of 3 3/8" including the two 3/8"-24 threaded and square ends. The original shackles were figure-eight shaped and retained with castle nuts and 3/32" x 5/8" cotter pins.

All passenger cars and commercial vehicles used the same front spring. The rear springs varied by body type. Early commercial rear springs had 12 leaves and those used later had thirteen leaves.

[jerseyboy]

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Thanks Bruce and Dave.

I know it is a replacement and not a 32' spring. What I needed to ask is if it is the correct replacement.

I am thinking of replacing the broken leaf and putting the spring back in. I just wanted to be sure it fits correctly before I spend the time and money.

I read on the Eaton Spring site that you measure along the bottom leaf from the center bolt to the center of each eye, to get the length of the spring.

Based on that, the spring I have measures 32.5"

I read in the Deuce book, that the free (unloaded) measurement of a 32' spring is 30.625-30.875.

Seems like there is a big difference. The wagon has been jacked up for sometime, so I am not sure how it sat prior.

I'm just trying to figure out if this spring is a correct replacement.

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!

[Bruce Lancaster]

Well...any Ford replacement made after '33 or so would have square ends.
On correctness of size...I think it is unlikely that anything but '32-34 (and probably Model A, with wrong shackle sizes but very close dimensions) could be stuffed in there.
I think I may have a spare actual '32 with broken main leaf.
I think even measured the way you describe, spring sag would lessen the curvature and hence lengthen the measurement, wouldn't it?

[DavidG]

It is not a correct replacement spring for the simple reason that it lacks twelve leaves. Further, the clamp position (in your photo) is much higher than the #5 leaf nor is there a hole in the #5 leaf for the correct clamp.

NORS springs turn up frequently and aren't expensive. If you know someone with a laser cutter or a water jet cutter you can knock the square corners off the ends to replicate the original spring if you wish. That's what I do.

As Bruce said, the greater the sag in the spring the greater the distance between the spring eyes.

[Fordors]

After so many years a lot could have occurred. Do you have another photo of the complete front axle on the car? It may be possible that the front end was swapped out for a late '33, or a '34 assembly, and that could account for the square cut spring ends. A true '32 axle will have a different appearance than the others I mention, but the later one would be a direct interchange.

Measuring between spring perch eyes I see a center to center of 34 5/8", and if I put a shackle at the installed angle of 45* there is 1 1/4" (or 2 1/2" for the pair) to be subtracted, leaving an installed eye to eye dimension of 32 1/8". Naturally the installed length is an approximation, dependent on the age/strength of the spring and the weight on it. The 32 1/8" I mention means that an installed spring with a free length of 30 5/8" (per your dimension from the first post) will need to be stretched (the arch flattened at installation) for the shackles to operate at the 45 degree angle.

Your first post leads me to believe you are measuring eye to eye with a tape measure following the top of the main leaf arch, but regardless you will not be able to measure the eye to eye of an assembled spring as your's has some cracked leaves. Correct measurement for the 30 5/8" dim. quoted will be eye to eye at the front of the assembled spring, not along the top of the main leaf.

[jerseyboy]

[QUOTE=Fordors;887876]After so many years a lot could have occurred. Do you have another photo of the complete front axle on the car? It may be possible that the front end was swapped out for a late '33, or a '34 assembly, and that could account for the square cut spring ends. A true '32 axle will have a different appearance than the others I mention, but the later one would be a direct interchange.

I'm pretty sure the axle is a 32'. Dave had pointed out in the past that my front cross member was also a replacement. Based on the shape of the front tube, horns, cross member, and spring, I think the wagon had been in an accident.

Here is a pictures of the axle.

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!

[Fordors]

Agreed, it is a '32 axle. I just thought that might have been a possibility so I mentioned it.

[sawzall]

would a 32 wagon have more leaves than say a sedan? could the replacement be a standard passanger car, rather than wagon.
perhaps someone pulled a few leaves for ride quality..

personally.. why not clean it up and put it back as is..
swapping out a spring isnt too bad later and having the "correct" spring isnt getting you on the road faster..

just random thoughts..

[Fe26]

Quote [I read on the Eaton Spring site that you measure along the bottom leaf from the center bolt to the center of each eye, to get the length of the spring.]

If the OP is measuring as described by Eaton then 'sag' dosen't come into the equation. What is being measured is the actual length of the main spring.

[jerseyboy]

Originally Posted by sawzall

would a 32 wagon have more leaves than say a sedan? could the replacement be a standard passanger car, rather than wagon.
perhaps someone pulled a few leaves for ride quality..

personally.. why not clean it up and put it back as is..
swapping out a spring isnt too bad later and having the "correct" spring isnt getting you on the road faster..

just random thoughts..

Jeff,

Yeah, I think I am going to replace the broken leaf, reverse the eyes and put it back in. I just wanted to confirm it was the correct size.

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!

[Fordors]

I checked an original '32 spring just now and yes, it does measure 32 1/2" on the main leaf. But, there is one major qualifier here and it is where I think the confusion comes in. Eaton describes measuring along the arch (following the radius) from eye to center bolt, and then doing the same for the other end of the main leaf. They require that spec for springs that are mounted longitudinally on a vehicle so that the axle will be properly positioned. Our early Fords with their transverse springs are not measured that way, at least not by the factory BITD, nor by the hot rod suppliers. I say hot rod suppliers because you mention going to a reverse eye main leaf.
The same spring in my garage that measures 32 1/2" (per Eaton's method) eye to eye is 31" as measured directly eye to eye and I would account for the additional 3/8" over the factory spec of 30 5/8" as spring sag.
One last thing. If you reverse the eyes on your original main leaf and maintain the same arch you will increase the eye to eye and shackle action will be lessened. From the preferred 40-45* shackle angle they will go more toward the vertical.

[jerseyboy]

Fordors,

Thank you very much. Your comments have been exactly what I was looking for.

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!

[Bruce Lancaster]

I believe you can buy new reversed main leaves alone from the place in Pennsylvania (memory leak... Poseys?) or Eaton to use with your original stack. If you want, I'll excavate by broken-main spring and see if it has '32 tips. I think it does, but the spiders are fierce in that corner of my dump...

[jerseyboy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

I believe you can buy new reversed main leaves alone from the place in Pennsylvania (memory leak... Poseys?) or Eaton to use with your original stack. If you want, I'll excavate by broken-main spring and see if it has '32 tips. I think it does, but the spiders are fierce in that corner of my dump...

Okay Bruce.

As you can tell I lived to see another day. The rear removal was not as bad as I thought.I ended up using the all-thread method, not the spreader.

Thanks for looking.

Keep V-8ing and 4-banging!