Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

[Mike V. Florida]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?


We should expect someone new to be spoon fed answers to every question without even the hearing about where the information resides and where future questions may be answered?


This thread would have been much better in my opinion if an example post was given where someone pointed to the restoration guidelines, said the answer was there, and the answer was not there.


I spend time looking up the information and quoting it word by word even copying diagrams and charts but I should not mention where I got the info?

[midgetracer]

I think you missed the point Mike. Answering the question and giving your source is no problem. When the question is not answered and the person is told that the answer is in the judging standards even with a page number it is not helpful since everyone does not own the judging standards. Sometimes it is a question of buying parts or buying reference materials. Restoring a Model A is not a cheap hobby and being proprietary with info does not serve the idea of a forum for information exchange well. JMHO.

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?


We should expect someone new to be spoon fed answers to every question without even the hearing about where the information resides and where future questions may be answered?


This thread would have been much better in my opinion if an example post was given where someone pointed to the restoration guidelines, said the answer was there, and the answer was not there.


I spend time looking up the information and quoting it word by word even copying diagrams and charts but I should not mention where I got the info?

Agreed. I encourage people to ask questions, and I also encourage them to do research. When someone asks a question the least they could do is to know the names of the parts and have a little understanding of the mechanical terms. At least take the time to learn about the Model A and sound like you know what you are talking about.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Growley bear

Agreed. I encourage people to ask questions, and I also encourage them to do research. When someone asks a question the least they could do is to know the names of the parts and have a little understanding of the mechanical terms. At least take the time to learn about the Model A and sound like you know what you are talking about.

If you think this lack of understanding is prevalent here, you should read some of the social media Model-A sites!

[CarlG]

When I was a teenager, there were no reference materials available for my Model A. My only source of information was my Dad, or just figure it out for myself.

Fast forward 50 years, when I finally got the fever to get another Model A. I wanted to have as much reference material as I could find. I actually had a pretty sizeable library even before I found the Model A that would overtake my life.

I really do not understand the reasoning behind someone having an asset and not having adequate references to care for it. Today we have the internet, and that seems to be the only "tool" many have. It has been all too easy to let someone else do the digging for us. Even here, I see the same questions asked over and over again. Questions that have been asked and answered many times.

(stepping off my soap box now)

[J Franklin]

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CarlG, 50 years ago is when I was able to obtain reference material from Clymer Publications, and the Page book was certainly available as well as a restoration book supplied by the Ford Motor Company itself. Before buying a model A people should get a few manuals so they at least know the basics. Asking for information is a leap of faith hoping the person answering has at least read the answer. Referring someone to published literature is always a proper response. adding a guess as to the answer is polite but may not be the correct answer.

[100IH]

I agree with J Franklin, Page and Clymer. Now it is a better world. My pet gripe is when it seems clear that someone posting a question, not only owns no references but is proud of it. Then asks a question that was asked just hours earlier. Leads me to think that the poster would rather have his name on the post and is above reading any posts asked by others or just to lazy to read the barn at all.

[28]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?


We should expect someone new to be spoon fed answers to every question without even the hearing about where the information resides and where future questions may be answered?


This thread would have been much better in my opinion if an example post was given where someone pointed to the restoration guidelines, said the answer was there, and the answer was not there.


I spend time looking up the information and quoting it word by word even copying diagrams and charts but I should not mention where I got the info?

You can look at it like that if you like.

My take is most of the questions on here are done conversationally, meaning people want to bounce ideas off of a community that should be pretty close knit. The people that are asking questions genuinely want to know or need help, we are not a community made up of adolescence. I agree that if there are numerous stupid questions then the community should step in and set the expectations, but we’re not there and will never be because we are made up of intelligent real people. The problem here is when members are just shut down by someone who is annoyed and rude about people just asking questions. Everyone sees it, no one appreciates it and no one likes to be talked to in a condescending manner. It like a fart in church and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth when someone is upset over another’s questions.

No one is forcing anyone to post replies divulging their hard earned knowledge for free. I haven’t seen any guns held to anyone’s head here and the submit reply button doesn’t always have to be pressed.

[28Ca8149]

I have a 1928 AR roadster .I bought this car in 1955 from the original owner that was the local Ford dealer mechanic . This car has a original honey comb radiator and a plate glass windshield .Every thing is original except the tires .The spare is still original There has been a lot of discussion about the car over the time .I wrote Ford years ago and they said that ford did a lot of things to keep the line going .This car could have been a Regina car .Hay Joe we ,we need some radiators .go to Maclouds ,the local hardware and get some radiators Thus the honey comb rad ,The model A expert in Calgary was to give a speech at the banquet about the difference between a Canadian car and a US car .He said I laid under your car for an hour and re wrote my speech

[daveymc29]

I own a sizable library with all the normal fix it books and some from the Clymers and such and though I have read them all I still have questions and have been very happy with the answers I get from this forum. Some very good advice probably get's deleted and overlooked because of the snarkiness of the responder. But I am here to learn any way I can and will answer some questions "the way that has worked for me." I have only been driving these things for a few years compared to most, bought my first running A in 1993. Over the couple of years I have been on this site I have amassed another library by copying your responses. Now if I could just find.......??

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by 28Ca8149

I have a 1928 AR roadster .I bought this car in 1955 from the original owner that was the local Ford dealer mechanic . This car has a original honey comb radiator and a plate glass windshield .Every thing is original except the tires .The spare is still original There has been a lot of discussion about the car over the time .I wrote Ford years ago and they said that ford did a lot of things to keep the line going .This car could have been a Regina car .Hay Joe we ,we need some radiators .go to Maclouds ,the local hardware and get some radiators Thus the honey comb rad ,The model A expert in Calgary was to give a speech at the banquet about the difference between a Canadian car and a US car .He said I laid under your car for an hour and re wrote my speech

According to the Restoration Guidelines/Judging Standards (This has always been my understanding) Page 10-1 lower left hand column states that "All windshields (except the Town Car) were sheet laminated safety glass in 1928-1929."
To my knowledge the Model A was the first American automobile to be equipped with a safety glass windshield. As with much of the Model A history there is a story that goes along with this. If you don't have access to the RG/JS I would be glad to e-mail you a copy if you are interested.
I didn't realize that you and your car are from Canada. I know that there are variations between countries of manufacture; this is very interesting. Is there a Canadian Restoration Guideline book?
Chet

[Growley bear]

This is a very good place to gain automotive mostly related information/education.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by 28

You can look at it like that if you like.

My take is most of the questions on here are done conversationally, meaning people want to bounce ideas off of a community that should be pretty close knit. The people that are asking questions genuinely want to know or need help, we are not a community made up of adolescence. I agree that if there are numerous stupid questions then the community should step in and set the expectations, but we’re not there and will never be because we are made up of intelligent real people. The problem here is when members are just shut down by someone who is annoyed and rude about people just asking questions. Everyone sees it, no one appreciates it and no one likes to be talked to in a condescending manner. It like a fart in church and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth when someone is upset over another’s questions.

No one is forcing anyone to post replies divulging their hard earned knowledge for free. I haven’t seen any guns held to anyone’s head here and the submit reply button doesn’t always have to be pressed.

Excellent post 28. You hit the nail on the head. Especially the last paragraph.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 28

You can look at it like that if you like.


No one is forcing anyone to post replies divulging their hard earned knowledge for free. I haven’t seen any guns held to anyone’s head here and the submit reply button doesn’t always have to be pressed.

Very true statement Sir, ....and many of the ones that researched the correct knowledge to offer, --or truly have/had the actual hands-on experience to offer no longer press that reply button here for many of the reasons posted above.


If my math is correct Sir, you have been a member here all of about 8 months. Many of us have been here for 8 years, --and much has changed here during that time. Adding to that, a few of us were here on Fordbarn some 8 years prior to the beginning of the present format, and we remember what the old Fordbarn was about. The respect and the topics back then were much superior than what is found here today. Personally I find that sad. And more to the direct point, the original Fordbarn, --and even the beginning of the present Fordbarn used to be focused on correct restoration. Now anything goes.


So the irony is that 10 years ago, someone could say 'check the Judging Standards', and nearly all of the readership did just that much like a Preacher preaching to his congregation and referencing scripture, the congregation turns in their Bibles to read that passage for themselves. You could tell people were doing that because people would post in the thread about what they read and ask questions relating to what they just read Now it seems like hobbyists really are not that interested in learning to do something correctly, --or just learning in general, but instead they seemingly just do whatever it takes to get by and on to other things.

[denis4x4]

Believe it or not, my library includes the Judging Standards as well as the truck info along with the service bulletins, Les Andrews books and several other publications like Jim Brierly's book and Bill Carroll's book. Whether you're a restorer or hot rodder, the info in these books is invaluable.

[JohnB15632]

I will give you a very specific question, what is the fastener size and length that secures the column molding to the A column of a 31 SW.

The correct size I found out is 10/32. The length, as given by suppliers is 3/4". However, the molding is tapered which means that the top fastener needs to be 1/2 ".

When I asked the question, I got the answer, check the RG JS. The only problem, the RG JS does not answer the question of length.

It took me trial and error, purchasing incorrect fasteners, and generally getting frustrated that I could not get an answer on Ford Barn. Ford Barn made me feel really stupid.

I have learned to not to depend on Ford Barn anymore.

Thanks,

[Mike V. Florida]

Thank you JohnB15632 for the example. The answer you received "check the RG JS." is a very poor one. It could mean, check the RGJS the answer is there, or it could be that, I don't the answer but check the RGJS. Either way, I feel your frustration and if that is what redmodelt was talking about then count me in with his request. We need to more clear in our communication.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by JohnB15632

I will give you a very specific question, what is the fastener size and length that secures the column molding to the A column of a 31 SW.

The correct size I found out is 10/32. The length, as given by suppliers is 3/4". However, the molding is tapered which means that the top fastener needs to be 1/2 ".

When I asked the question, I got the answer, check the RG JS. The only problem, the RG JS does not answer the question of length.

It took me trial and error, purchasing incorrect fasteners, and generally getting frustrated that I could not get an answer on Ford Barn. Ford Barn made me feel really stupid.

I have learned to not to depend on Ford Barn anymore.

Thanks,

For that, I would have suggested the "Ford Model A Standard Hardware" book....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by cpf240

For that, I would have suggested the "Ford Model A Standard Hardware" book....

Exactly!! By a show of hands, who here owns that book?


FWIW, that book (-just like the RG&JS) requires an effort to search out information. I suspect the average restorer here has never encountered this topic, and does not have the ancillary items (-parts books, Mick's fastener book, prints, etc.) to be able to research John's question. It also should be pointed out the amount of someone's time that would also be required to look this up. There was a day when this forum had knowledgeable participants who would have gladly taken the time to research that for John, as they truly cared about authenticity and for those who were seeking to restore to that level. It is a shame that almost of those knowledgeable people have moved from here.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Exactly!! By a show of hands, who here owns that book?

But the joke with the hand aside, we let him down. I don't read every post as I once did on this site, less then 10% actually, and do not remember seeing that one. I'm sorry John.