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Old 07-18-2021, 01:12 PM   #1
Russell Reay
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Default Bent frame--how bad is it?

I just laid a 4 -foot carpenter's level on the frame, centered on the middle cross-member. The sag is about 1/8 of an inch right at the x-member. There are no cracks, and no other evidence of trauma to this frame. Is 1/8" enough that I should have the frame straightened before putting the car back together? I read Les Andrews procedure for frame straightening, but I would probably take it to a shop. I don't wish to ignore a good situation in pursuit of perfection, but neither do I wish to be foolish and neglect this flaw if it will be the source of problems in the future.
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Old 07-18-2021, 02:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Have you also checked for square? I’d also pull a sting from front to back and see if the 1/8 is really a bit more than over just the 4’ span....I bet it is.
The car has to assemble full length so if the 1/8 turns into 1/4 you may be getting close to vertical alignment issues on gaps and hood alignment
Just imho
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Old 07-18-2021, 04:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

They usually sag the most where the rear engine mounts fasten to the frame, put your level across that spot on each side.
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Old 07-18-2021, 07:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

What oldblueoval says X2. Hoods are difficult enough to align with the cowl and radiator shell properly without having to contend with a sagging frame. Run a tight string from end to end.
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Reay View Post
I just laid a 4 -foot carpenter's level on the frame, centered on the middle cross-member. The sag is about 1/8 of an inch right at the x-member. There are no cracks, and no other evidence of trauma to this frame. Is 1/8" enough that I should have the frame straightened before putting the car back together? I read Les Andrews procedure for frame straightening, but I would probably take it to a shop. I don't wish to ignore a good situation in pursuit of perfection, but neither do I wish to be foolish and neglect this flaw if it will be the source of problems in the future.
recheck square and flatness down the whole length of each frame rail. If your frame is "naked" nows the time to do it right and have it straightened. You wouldnt build a house on a lopsided foundation and probably not even a garden shed :P
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Old 07-18-2021, 11:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

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Yes,

Take care of the sag NOW. It will save you from a lot of problems later.

My opinion,

Chris W.
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Old 07-19-2021, 04:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

I didn't check my frame and went to assemble it and had a hell of a time making the hood fit somewhat. I was young at the time. I have plans to pull it apart when my son graduates rebuild the motor and fix the frame my guess is it is out the 1/8 that you have and probably more. Yes absolutely have it straighted.
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Old 07-19-2021, 05:05 PM   #8
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Reay View Post
I just laid a 4 -foot carpenter's level on the frame, centered on the middle cross-member. The sag is about 1/8 of an inch right at the x-member. There are no cracks, and no other evidence of trauma to this frame. Is 1/8" enough that I should have the frame straightened before putting the car back together? I read Les Andrews procedure for frame straightening, but I would probably take it to a shop. I don't wish to ignore a good situation in pursuit of perfection, but neither do I wish to be foolish and neglect this flaw if it will be the source of problems in the future.
Yes, 0.125" is WAY too much. Let 0.000" be your target. It is very obtainable.

Not sure of Les' recommendation however I can share with you that using a jack to bend a bent frame is the incorrect way to do this. This topic has been discussed several times here, -and heat & metal shrinking is the only proper method to repair a frame where it will last. Think of a bend in the metal the same as a wrong, ...and we all know that two wrongs do not make a right.
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Old 07-19-2021, 06:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

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Yes, 0.125" is WAY too much. Let 0.000" be your target. It is very obtainable.

Not sure of Les' recommendation however I can share with you that using a jack to bend a bent frame is the incorrect way to do this. This topic has been discussed several times here, -and heat & metal shrinking is the only proper method to repair a frame where it will last. Think of a bend in the metal the same as a wrong, ...and we all know that two wrongs do not make a right.
Yes tried the jack at the time and need to fix that spot also.
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Old 07-19-2021, 07:09 PM   #10
Russell Reay
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Visited a frame shop in town today--they are scheduling into October! The owner described chaining the frame to the 'frame machine' and applying pressure with a Port-a-Power. I don't see how that is any different than Les's method. I understand metal shrinking on thin sheet metal (never tried it, though) , but how would you shrink something as heavy as frame steel (10 ga?) ?
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Old 07-19-2021, 07:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Make sure it’s “square” before you leave his shop
Out of square can make for lots of weird assembly
Measure in “X” fashion
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Old 07-19-2021, 09:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

I for one would like to know how you end up squaring it up.
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:18 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Usually on a frame machine
The sag can be taken care of as RR states. But not familiar with the heating as Brent describes. I have enough confidence in Brent to believe him.
I’ve heard from some of the Super Restorers that they “tighten up”the frame rivets also.
Probably getting subject drift …..
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Old 07-20-2021, 07:26 AM   #14
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Reay View Post
Visited a frame shop in town today--they are scheduling into October! The owner described chaining the frame to the 'frame machine' and applying pressure with a Port-a-Power. I don't see how that is any different than Les's method. I understand metal shrinking on thin sheet metal (never tried it, though) , but how would you shrink something as heavy as frame steel (10 ga?) ?

Russell, with no disrespect to Les and his book, I will just say that not everything that is printed in that book is totally accurate. Others will confirm this. This topic of frame straightening has been covered several times on this site with a full explanation of the process. The search function on this site is your friend.

Also, you likely need to find another frame shop that is more familiar with the process. In a nutshell, your frame has been stretched to create the bend. If someone uses a jack (i.e.: Porta-power) to move the rail, what they are effectively doing is just bending the metal in a different direction. Now you have two separate bends, and not a corrected bend. A knowledgeable craftsman can straighten your frame and never have a jack (-or Porta-power) within sight.



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Originally Posted by todd3131 View Post
I for one would like to know how you end up squaring it up.
The way we do it is use a tram gauge and measure in a diagonal 'X' pattern to compare measurements. I have copies of the A-5005-* frame drawings that gives the dimensions from certain holes or attachment points.

To square a skewed frame, compression is placed on the longest tangent to pull the frame back square. (-think 'come-along winch' or turnbuckle & cables to pull with) At that point where it is back within specification, it is best to heat and re-buck all of the rivets at the crossmembers to hold the A-5015/16 Frame Side Member (rails) square with each other. This process is best done after the side members have been straightened both in a horizontal and vertical direction.
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:41 AM   #15
Russell Reay
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Checked for square. There is a hole in the top of the frame rail directly opposite the dipstick, and a corresponding hole on the other side. With the engine still in place, that is the forward-most feature I can measure to. From the extreme rear-most points on the frame diagonally to the center of these holes, I get a difference of 1/16". Will search the forum archives for more about the frame straightening process. If anyone has a link to an especially good thread, please post it.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:59 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

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If anyone has a link to an especially good thread, please post it.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162055

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168668


And here is one where the jury is hung between hypothetical and real-world experiences. Still an interesting read where perceived theory often overshadows reality. (Kinda like the mindset that you should never clean Model-A parts in gasoline because it could explode. I agree it could, and most of us here have done it more than a couple of times without any casualties though. So is the occasional using of gasoline for parts cleaning right or wrong?? )

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119693
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Old 07-20-2021, 02:35 PM   #17
Russell Reay
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Brent-see PM
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Old 07-20-2021, 04:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Good information thank you! Maybe the best part is I bring it to you to get it right. At this point in my life I just want it done and done correctly.
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:07 AM   #19
Russell Reay
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Update!! Spoke with Brent and referred to his post at https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119693. Used heat with my rosebud--no quenching- and the frame returned to a sag of a sheet of paper. Follow the logic he presents, and bottle jacks and frame machines have no applicability. After a coat of paint I can return to re-assembly. Thanks Brent!
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bent frame--how bad is it?

Russell
So where did you heat it? How did you decide where and how much area to heat. All parts of the “C” frame?
Enlighten please.
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