The Ford Barn

mramc1 · 02-22-2016, 08:55 AM

I have a 1938 4.11 banjo rear in my Model A coupe. I don't know if I have a problem our not, but the "banjo" center section gets pretty hot after driving the car. I have fresh 600W oil in it up the fill plug. When I jack the rearend up and spin the wheels and drive shaft (I have an open yoke conversion) there is no looseness, noise, or binding in the axles or the driveshaft. I'm running knobby rear tires so it's hard to hear if there is any whine when driving the car.

I know rearends gets warm when in use in any car, but this one gets hot to the point you don't want to leave your hand on the pinion which seems too hot to me. The axle bells are cold at the wheels and away from the banjo. Do I have a failing inner pinion bearing? I put a new outer bearing in because it was accessible. The old one appeared okay, but I changed it anyway and no difference in the temperature.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Kurt in NJ · 02-22-2016, 09:06 AM

If you are using true "600W" oil that could be part of the problem, 600W is steam cylinder oil with it's listed uses as steam, and worm gears----then there is the 600 series of gear lubricants that the listed use is spur and bevel gears---like Shell Omala 680---this is probably too thick for the later axle you are using, try using 90/140 weight gl1 gear oil ---or you could have the preload set too high on the bearing you replaces

mramc1 · 02-22-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

If you are using true "600W" oil that could be part of the problem, 600W is steam cylinder oil with it's listed uses as steam, and worm gears----then there is the 600 series of gear lubricants that the listed use is spur and bevel gears---like Shell Omala 680---this is probably too thick for the later axle you are using, try using 90/140 weight gl1 gear oil ---or you could have the preload set too high on the bearing you replaces

I'm using 600W oil that Mac's sells. The pinion preload isn't very tight, it was actually a little loose and the pinion was moving in and out a few thousandths. I adjusted it to just a little past snug so the pinion wasn't moving. The manual has a strange preload setting, I think it's torque setting spinning the gear set with the rearend fully assembled. Either way I seems like the preload is a very low torque setting.

adileo · 02-22-2016, 09:39 AM

I believe the 600w that Mac sells is really 140. This has come up on threads before.

JSeery · 02-22-2016, 10:00 AM

Easiest thing to try is to run a light weight gear lube or like Kurt suggested a multi grade lube. Not sure why he suggested GL1, I would run GL4, or even GL5 for that matter, there is no "yellow" metal in the rear axle.

john in illinois · 02-22-2016, 11:52 AM

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I use Lucas heavy duty 85-140. It is a clinging oil. As for heat, the only time I had heat in a banjo I was running tight used bearings at high end of torque setiing.
I loosened them to a light drag and they have been fine.

John

02-22-2016, 08:55 AM	#1
mramc1 Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: West of Rochester, NY Posts: 83	1938 Banjo Rear Temperature I have a 1938 4.11 banjo rear in my Model A coupe. I don't know if I have a problem our not, but the "banjo" center section gets pretty hot after driving the car. I have fresh 600W oil in it up the fill plug. When I jack the rearend up and spin the wheels and drive shaft (I have an open yoke conversion) there is no looseness, noise, or binding in the axles or the driveshaft. I'm running knobby rear tires so it's hard to hear if there is any whine when driving the car. I know rearends gets warm when in use in any car, but this one gets hot to the point you don't want to leave your hand on the pinion which seems too hot to me. The axle bells are cold at the wheels and away from the banjo. Do I have a failing inner pinion bearing? I put a new outer bearing in because it was accessible. The old one appeared okay, but I changed it anyway and no difference in the temperature. Any insight would be appreciated. __________________ Josh Quick Quick Speed Shop "6.50 rubber really gives you the old dig when you need it!"

02-22-2016, 09:06 AM	#2
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: 1938 Banjo Rear Temperature If you are using true "600W" oil that could be part of the problem, 600W is steam cylinder oil with it's listed uses as steam, and worm gears----then there is the 600 series of gear lubricants that the listed use is spur and bevel gears---like Shell Omala 680---this is probably too thick for the later axle you are using, try using 90/140 weight gl1 gear oil ---or you could have the preload set too high on the bearing you replaces

02-22-2016, 09:39 AM	#4
adileo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,772	Re: 1938 Banjo Rear Temperature I believe the 600w that Mac sells is really 140. This has come up on threads before.

02-22-2016, 10:00 AM	#5
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1938 Banjo Rear Temperature Easiest thing to try is to run a light weight gear lube or like Kurt suggested a multi grade lube. Not sure why he suggested GL1, I would run GL4, or even GL5 for that matter, there is no "yellow" metal in the rear axle.

02-22-2016, 11:52 AM	#6
john in illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,183	Re: 1938 Banjo Rear Temperature Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I use Lucas heavy duty 85-140. It is a clinging oil. As for heat, the only time I had heat in a banjo I was running tight used bearings at high end of torque setiing. I loosened them to a light drag and they have been fine. John