WHY "Self-Energizing" Drum Brakes Work So Well....

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Good Lockheeds match Bendix units, you just have to know how to set them up.

Well, I think it's pretty darn cool that someone has finally figured out how to change "PHYSICS" out here in the real world!

Coop

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[rich b]

Had to cut some seized brakes apart to make an old Zephyr roll for transport and was surprised to see that they were mechanical Bendix brakes; had the lower star wheel adjuster just like the juice Lincoln brakes.

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by HDowse

Juergen is fight about the 37-38 cable brakes being self energizing. The wheel has different length shoes and four different springs that must be placed in the correct order to function as designed. There’s a relatively steep hill near my home and when going down I can lightly apply the brakes with some decent results. But when I put just a little more force on the pedal, the braking force is significantly more noticeable as the self energizing kicks in. Because the cables get sticky with old grease or even worse corrode, they have a less than stellar reputation. I replaced the cables on the 37 pickup a year or so ago and it stops better than my 40 sedan with Lockheed brakes. Given this discussion, it’s time for me to spring for the Bendix replacements, at least on the fronts.

Hello # 19
'37'38 cable brakes were scrap; "self energizing" meaning you better do something about them, and quick, before you are a victim and can't reply from your grave; to wit, = the reason Ford used 'em for a year+, then got some sense.

Why Ford wasn't laughed off the planet was because Ford realized, uh, our engineers should be hanged at sunrise to show our sincerity to can , scrap, shtcan, this idea.
I had a '38 half-ton a short period of time; sold it while I was still alive. thank you -

[38 coupe]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Well, I think it's pretty darn cool that someone has finally figured out how to change "PHYSICS" out here in the real world!

Coop

Please explain. Please use physics terms like coefficient of friction, surface area, pressure, force, acceleration, moment couple, and other terms to demonstrate your superiority to me.
OR
We can agree that your experience is different from mine. I understand that you have strong opinions. I also understand you are going through tough stuff. I appreciate your activity here on this forum. I request you not attack what I say without following it up with clear explanation.



I related my experience. Using a combination of stock Ford parts in a slightly off-book combination resulted in great brakes. The larger bores in the off-book wheel cylinders added force to the brake shoes. The softer linings on the brake shoes (not woven, but not super hard) combined with the wheel cylinders resulted in increased potential braking force. A careful adjustment of the pivot points and brake resting positions, along with adjusting the brake master cylinder rod resulted in truly excellent totally stock appearing brakes. This happened in 2003. My father, my best friend, and I drove the car from Texas to Dearborn for the V8 Club Grand National.


Bendix brakes are as close as you can get to set-it-and-forget-it with drum brakes. That doesn't necessarily mean they are automatically the best. They are much more forgiving than all other types I have worked with.


For the ultimate in different information I have good results with 37-38 cable brakes. They take a huge amount of setup time, including replacing any worn parts, but they can be made to work well. My 38 has cable brakes and I have confidently driven it across San Antonio and down I-10. I adjust them much more frequently than I do the brakes on my 53 sedan. My 38 stops as well as my 53 (and I have done a truly complete brake job on the 53 including ALL cylinders, hoses, shoes, and rear drums in one shot so don't think the 53 has crappy brakes, it doesn't).

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by highbeams

Hello # 19
'37'38 cable brakes were scrap; "self energizing" meaning you better do something about them, and quick, before you are a victim and can't reply from your grave; to wit, = the reason Ford used 'em for a year+, then got some sense.

Why Ford wasn't laughed off the planet was because Ford realized, uh, our engineers should be hanged at sunrise to show our sincerity to can , scrap, shtcan, this idea.
I had a '38 half-ton a short period of time; sold it while I was still alive. thank you -

Thank you for your opinion based on your extensive experience with your half-ton. Thank you also for your opinion of Ford Engineers with whom you also have extensive personal knowledge.

[ford38v8]

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Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Bendix brakes are as close as you can get to set-it-and-forget-it with drum brakes. That doesn't necessarily mean they are automatically the best. They are much more forgiving than all other types I have worked with.


For the ultimate in different information I have good results with 37-38 cable brakes. They take a huge amount of setup time, including replacing any worn parts, but they can be made to work well. My 38 has cable brakes and I have confidently driven it across San Antonio and down I-10. I adjust them much more frequently than I do the brakes on my 53 sedan. My 38 stops as well as my 53 (and I have done a truly complete brake job on the 53 including ALL cylinders, hoses, shoes, and rear drums in one shot so don't think the 53 has crappy brakes, it doesn't).

The reason your brakes required adjustment so often may have been similar to my own experience: The Adjusting wedge would interfere with the self centering function as braking pressure was applied, forcing the wedge solidly backward against the adjuster.

The fix was to convert the adjuster system to the Bendix star adjuster type, known as floaters. With this conversion, no further adjustments are required, as has been proven with several cross country trips. This of course depends on the condition of the whole system as well.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Please explain. Please use physics terms like coefficient of friction, surface area, pressure, force, acceleration, moment couple, and other terms to demonstrate your superiority to me.
OR
We can agree that your experience is different from mine. I understand that you have strong opinions. I also understand you are going through tough stuff. I appreciate your activity here on this forum. I request you not attack what I say without following it up with clear explanation.



I related my experience. Using a combination of stock Ford parts in a slightly off-book combination resulted in great brakes. The larger bores in the off-book wheel cylinders added force to the brake shoes. The softer linings on the brake shoes (not woven, but not super hard) combined with the wheel cylinders resulted in increased potential braking force. A careful adjustment of the pivot points and brake resting positions, along with adjusting the brake master cylinder rod resulted in truly excellent totally stock appearing brakes. This happened in 2003. My father, my best friend, and I drove the car from Texas to Dearborn for the V8 Club Grand National.


Bendix brakes are as close as you can get to set-it-and-forget-it with drum brakes. That doesn't necessarily mean they are automatically the best. They are much more forgiving than all other types I have worked with.


For the ultimate in different information I have good results with 37-38 cable brakes. They take a huge amount of setup time, including replacing any worn parts, but they can be made to work well. My 38 has cable brakes and I have confidently driven it across San Antonio and down I-10. I adjust them much more frequently than I do the brakes on my 53 sedan. My 38 stops as well as my 53 (and I have done a truly complete brake job on the 53 including ALL cylinders, hoses, shoes, and rear drums in one shot so don't think the 53 has crappy brakes, it doesn't).

Well, just dam! "Attack what you say .... to demonstrate MY superiority"??? I try to give a guy a pat on the back for finally finding a way to make Lockheed brakes perform like Bendix brakes, and you wanna jump my bones? MAYBE stay off the hot sauce for a few days .... all that I can suggest! We don't need no drama here, bud!

Coop

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