Where’s Paul Shinn?

[jack backer]

Where’s Paul Shinn? what happened with the last video?

[Chuck Dempsey]

He is still posting on Facebook. This was posted about four hours ago -

Heads up! In just a moment Paul and Bob will go live from the NCRG Round Up! We are at the Italian Benevolence Society grounds where we will have fun in their center!

https://youtube.com/user/paulshinn

[jack backer]

He has yet to contact Burtz about his block issues found in the video..

[nkaminar]

He is in California.

[81ls1camaro]

Originally Posted by jack backer

He has yet to contact Burtz about his block issues found in the video..

I think there is a thread floating around here that talks about that subject. He deleted that video right away after all the backlash.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by jack backer

He has yet to contact Burtz about his block issues found in the video..

I probably should stay out of this, but why did I think his plan was after removing the video that he decided to sell all of the Burtz items he had purchased and move on?

[todd3131]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I probably should stay out of this, but why did I think his plan was after removing the video that he decided to sell all of the Burtz items he had purchased and move byon?

Early on in that whole thread before things settled down hm made a post that said something like that. After that it looked like they were or are moving forward. I hope so

[Jeff/Illinois]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

He is in California.

HA!!

Best answer yet!

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I probably should stay out of this, but why did I think his plan was after removing the video that he decided to sell all of the Burtz items he had purchased and move on?

As I understand him, he plans to ship the 2 engines back to Burtz for a full refund. His work schedule has delayed him from doing that, but he plans to send them back shortly.

He says he has made a video of how he and his machinist took the measurements that they felt were out of spec. That documents the procedures and the findings.

He says after Burtz receives the engines back for inspection and makes those same measurements (and makes a video of them doing it? I don't know) he plans to release his measurement video.

So, yes, he has dropped the idea of building two of their engine kits and is moving on.

[jack backer]

According to Terry Nadia Burtz he has yet to respond with measurements or return the blocks after 6 weeks, She is righteously indignant for not being given the ability to back their product or clear their name..they have shipped over 500 kits without issue. I’m paraphrasing her actual quote..

Really? You hack a business then refuse to comply?..

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Thanks Jim. I could not remember if it was a private message between Paul & I, -or in other emails or phone calls I participated in where I heard that.

From my vantage point the findings are probably going to be moot at this point simply because for those who are Burtz fans, they are only going to believe that those engine pieces were without issues, ...and the ones that are Paul Shinn supporters will likely only believe what Paul & Willie found during their inspection. Either way, proving what evidence was found (-even if someone visually sees the evidence before their own eyes in a video) will always be critiqued by supporters on each side, and likely there will always be levels of prejudice from some that will never believe what was found, ...even if what is presented was 100% factual. Kinda sad at this point for both sides.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by jack backer

According to Terry Nadia Burtz he has yet to respond with measurements or return the blocks after 6 weeks, She is righteously indignant for not being given the ability to back their product or clear their name..they have shipped over 500 kits without issue. I’m paraphrasing her actual quote..

Really? You hack a business then refuse to comply?..

I'm sorry that I am not following on this Jack, ...who is the "She" you are referring to??

[jack backer]

Terry’s wife.. she belongs to a Facebook page I administer.. but that is moot, what’s really important here is the accusation without follow up..like yourself Brent, and Jeff from Illinois, your reputation is paramount to your business, and, like Burtz you would welcome criticism and honor issues with your product, your integrity is vital to your success..

[jack backer]

Undoubtedly their are fans on both sides of the issue. In this case one party clearly defamed the other and did not allow for recourse.. “moving on” occurs when both parties are made whole..Paul Shinn has no skin in the game, The Burtz group does..

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by jack backer

Where’s Paul Shinn? what happened with the last video?

Why are you stirring this up again? I think this should be worked out offline and not on a public forum. This is a matter between Terry and Paul to work out.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by jack backer

Terry’s wife.. she belongs to a Facebook page I administer.. but that is moot, what’s really important here is the accusation without follow up..like yourself Brent, and Jeff from Illinois, your reputation is paramount to your business, and, like Burtz you would welcome criticism and honor issues with your product, your integrity is vital to your success..

Jack, I am friends with Terry on Facebook also, so I know who Nadia is, -and you are correct it is her Facebook page, ...however I was unaware she has ever posted anything about these engines. It was always assumed by me that it was Terry that was actually writing on Facebook and not her. That is where my confusion came from.

Originally Posted by jack backer

Undoubtedly their are fans on both sides of the issue. In this case one party clearly defamed the other and did not allow for recourse.. “moving on” occurs when both parties are made whole..Paul Shinn has no skin in the game, The Burtz group does..

Jack, I understand your point about reputations, ...and I really do not want to choose sides in this, but playing Devil's Advocate with you for a moment, would you not agree with me that when Mr. Shinn purchased two engines without advertising compensation, price discount, or financial consideration from Mr. Burtz, is it not plausible that at that point those engines were Mr. Shinn's property to do solely as he wishes? Does Mr. Burtz or any of his representatives have the right to demand those engines be returned??

For me answering the above question(s), I think those engines are Mr. Shinn's engines to do what he wishes and whenever he chooses to do something without peer pressure from any of us who aren't really involved.

Also, as the rightful owner of those engines, isn't it Mr. Shinn's prerogative to tell anyone (-by any legal method) anything he wanted to say about his engines as long as he did not maliciously slander or legally defame Mr. Burtz? Note that I used the word legally, and not just a comment that you or I think should be considered 'Defamation'. Therefore based on what I know of the law from being in a similar position, -and based on my opinion of how the video stated Mr. Shinn's findings, I feel at this point it would be difficult to prove Defamation by Mr. Shinn in a court of law. Again, it is my opinion that malice with intent to slander was NOT the purpose of Mr. Shinn's video. Maybe a jury would see it differently however what I have learned about public reviews thru social media and the internet is it will require much more action against Mr. Burtz than what I have seen demonstrated by that video.

So bringing this full-circle, at this point (-whether we like it or not) it really is Mr. Shinn's prerogative to do as he wishes with his engines and on his timeline, ...and if he does not wish to return them at this time, I kinda think he is within his legal rights to do so. If he is choosing to work with Mr. Burtz at a later date (-which I hope he does), then that is between them and probably should not be a discussion here until both sides have reached an amicable resolve. So what am I missing??

Originally Posted by Ruth

Why are you stirring this up again? I think this should be worked out offline and not on a public forum. This is a matter between Terry and Paul to work out.

I wholeheartedly agree. Participants on social media and these two Model-A forums have seemingly caused more damage than anything.

[jack backer]

I agree about personal property, disagree about damage to Burtz’s reputation. Even if it’s not actionable. Hoping the parties settle is a wish we all have. One of the parties used a forum to state their frustration that there has been no resolution to date.

[ModelA29]

Let's not forget Paul reported what "his" engine builder stated he found.

I have not seen the video that was pulled. I did see the one where Paul & Terry were talking about the backlash of having stuff made in China.

Without 100% inspection of every part here in the US prior to shipment to the end customer you'll never know if tolerances were met by the supplier.


I'm still considering a Burtz for my 29. When you look at the price of just a Scat crank it's easy to see the value of the Burtz engine.

[BlueSunoco]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Why are you stirring this up again? I think this should be worked out offline and not on a public forum. This is a matter between Terry and Paul to work out.

ABSOLUTELY my feelings exactly. Thank you Ruth.

Some people spend way too much time watching Judge Judy. And then it spills over into their own lives. Let's ditch the legalese crap and get back to old cars.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by BlueSunoco

ABSOLUTELY my feelings exactly. Thank you Ruth.

Some people spend way too much time watching Judge Judy. And then it spills over into their own lives. Let's ditch the legalese crap and get back to old cars.

Hell YES, and hide the news/politics

J