transmission help

[rob63mess]

I have a 1917 truck. I got the motor running well but the transmission is not working properly. It is locked in gear. With the rear end jacked up, the the motor will start and run fine, the axle turns, but i can not get it out of gear. Also, when i work the peddles (clutch, brake, and reverse), the motor bogs down to the point of stalling. I removed the cover on hogshead and the bands are not siezed...any ideas?

I've attached a picture of the truck....it has a dumpbed and was manufactured in Bellaire, Ohio. The guy in the picture is my dad. I actually bought the truck for him along with a 26 coupe for myself back in October. Sadly he was diagnosed with lung cancer a couple of days after we got the cars and died 2 weeks ago. He never got to hear the truck run....I miss him.

[RPM]

Rob- a buddy of mine just fired his Great Grampas 23 T touring last sat. Gramps bought it new. It hasn't run since 1966. Mike spent all winter cleaning and polishing. The paint and trim glisten. His father hung onto the car until his passing 2 years ago. Interestingly enough we both had the same first and last names! I lost my father 10 years ago on Feb 28 and I still miss him every day. He never got to see my 40 Fords but I know he'd be grinning ear to ear! Hope someone here can help figure out what's wrong with your T. Best of luck. RPM

[redmodelt]

First my condolences on the loss of your father.
I am going to suggest is getting a copy of the Ford Service Manual.
The parking brake handle should put the transmission in neutral when it is in the up right position. With the inspection cover off look and see if the clutch fingers are free when it is. If they are then your clutch disk may be hanging up on the drum or just stuck together. While you are looking inside release the parking brake handle and have someone turn the motor, with the switch off and key out and rear wheel jacked up. Check the adjustment screws they should be all approx the same height. All most all Model T's rear wheels will spin when in neutral when jacked up it's the nature of the beast. Hope this is a place to start with in checking.

[CharlieB]

Rob, your clutch plates may not be releasing. First make sure the external linkage is OK and adjusted properly for what is called "Free Neutral". Hand brake in the half way position: free rear wheels with no connection to the engine. The clutch fingers are at the rear of the trans (inside of course). In high gear the heavy spring pushes the clutch plates together forming a straight through connection from the rear wheels to the engine. The fingers should have play at this point. With the hand brake half way or fully back the fingers should have no play compressing the spring and releasing the clutch plates.The plates themselves can stick together even if the linkage and fingers are operating correctly. Usually due to sitting with the hand brake fully forward for a long time. (possibly years in some cases). First, as I said, make sure your linkage is operating OK. Sticking clutch plates mean the car is always in high gear and hitting the pedals will cause what you descibe. Try this: hand brake to the half way position, ONE rear wheel off the ground (the other must be on the floor or solidly blocked) Turn the wheel. If the engine turns with the wheel you're locked in high gear.

[rob63mess]

thanks for the replies guys....I'll check it out tomorrow.

[John Otis]

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Sorry about your dad. If you can keep it running for an extended time with a wheel jacked up it may free itself. I had one that had been stored for years and the clutch disks were stuck together. I jacked a wheel and just let the thing run. Once it got pretty hot I worked the lever repeatedly and finally got it freed up. It was fine after that, and it was in perfect adjustment to boot. A little heat can work wonders and I think the hot oil slowly worked its way in between the disks.

[FRANK PKNY]

You can also let the engine soak with a gallon of karosene for a few days and turn it over on ocassion with the key off of course every day . make sure the lever is in center position. Sounds like stuck clutch disks to me. Then drain and put in fresh oil 5w 30w and try again if it breaks loose run only a short time with the light oil let it get warm with no load drain again and put in 20-30 or the oil of your choice. I run 20-30 detergent my choice JMHO with some slipagent from NAPA the can says not to use with a wet clutch. But it works with Motel t,s from my experience. My engine is hand crank and will start at 20 degrees without jacking the rear wheels . My bands are old style cotton and work well with the slip agent and the clutch does not drag to much when cold.

[rob63mess]

I hope that that stuck discs are the problem. Really dont want to pull the mator and mess with the tranny. Model Ts are new to me .....especially the trannys. I'll have a little time later in the week to mess with it. thanks

[John Otis]

This should help: http://www.modeltcentral.com/transmi...animation.html

[rob63mess]

Hey guys.....a quick update......the kerosene trick worked like a charm....the tranny now works as it should......now i just have to figure out how to adjust it to free neutral and I'll be set. I cant thanks everyone enough for all the help, I dont know how anyone who is new to Model Ts could get along without this site.
Thanks again
Rob

[FRANK PKNY]

Rob I'm not quite clear on the problem now if the disks are free you should get neutral. If you have it jacked up and blocked well get it running and pull back the brake handle. Tell me what happens. You can also just hit the brake pedal. it should brake loose.

[rob63mess]

I should have phrased it differently. With the wheel jacked up, I can apply the foot brake and the wheel stops.....the hand brake does not seem to do much, but i haven't gotten around to trouble shooting it...may need adjusting or the brakes may need repaired.....i just need to keep it from creeping when I get it down off the jack. Also may need to adjust the clutch pedal and brake pedal but I'll have to look up a good starting point with pedal movement.....any suggestions?

[FRANK PKNY]

Ok that makes more sence . You now need to pull the rear wheels, You will need a hub puller most likely. I it still has the old style brake shoes that are unlined, I would recomend getting the new replacement shoes with lineing. they will require fitting but they will also stop the rear wheels from turning and are a better means for stoping and holding from creaping forward. Don't do any adjusting yet. Do the brakes and drive it as much as you can. Did you add any slip agent? Napa sell's it. The band's may or may not be good. I would pull the trans cover and take a peek. . It will give you a good idea as to how much lining is left. You don't want to run them if their to thin because you will score the drums. If you are lucky they will have som life left in them so you can drive it a bit and see what you have. Be careful with the cover off because you don't want to drop anything into the trans. If the gasket is intact just reuse it with a little rtv. Good luck please let us know how you do. Frank pkny

[CharlieB]

Maybe someone on this site can post Murray Feinstocks 1 page article on adjusting for free neutral. That's where you need to start. It's always popping up on the MTFCA site. The first thing is getting the rear brakes to work. Don't go nuts. Adjust the clevis on each brake rod so the wheels lock up with the hand brake all the way back. Free neutral involves adjusting the shift pedal linkage. Best wait for the article for that. And get that kero out of the engine. It's work is done. Frank suggests the new lined shoes. So do I but they take ALOT of fitting and fiddleing. Best get some miles on it first.

[Lee Crenshaw]

Rob, Ford started making the TT in '17. If your truck has a worm-drive rear (driveshaft comes in at the top of the rear housing) you will have to reline your existing brakes. The lined shoes that are spoken of are for the automobile chassis.
As to a free neutralRemove the floorboards) the handbrake lever should be moved forward until the cam bolt
comes just short of the clutch cam. Now remove the clevis from the clutch cam arm. Pull the low gear pedal all the way back. Now adjust(screw out) the clevis so that it is 1/8" short of
the hole in the clutch arm. Move the low gear pedal down until the hole lines up with the clevis and insert the pin. The linkage is now properly adjusted. You have adjusted for the wear that occurrs in the holes and pins.
Lee

[rob63mess]

Thanks for the info guys.....I dont believe the truck is a tt....I believe it was a truck built buy a maunufacturer in Bellaire, Ohio on a chassis purchases from Ford. I've attached a photo of the manufacturing tag on the truck. Anyone know anything about it?

[Lee Crenshaw]

Rob, correction: the clevis length is 1/16" short. (not 1/8)
By the way, I spent 40 years in the dump body business. I would be interested in seeing pictures of the body and dump mechanism on your truck.
Lee

[rob63mess]

Lee,
As soon as I get a few extra minutes, I'll snap some pictures for you. It is a gravity dump bed that latches behind the seat. Really cute, I'm pretty certain that a dealer built these trucks for a specific purpose....maybe coal delivery, especially coming from that area.
Rob

[CharlieB]

Hope I didn't screw you up too badly with my post. I said the clutch fingers should be free in high gear. That's wrong. They are applied in high and should have no play. By the way the free play adjustment diagram is on the mtfca site now under the title clutch adjustment.

[rob63mess]

no worries Charlie...any suggestions were appreciated....I'll check MTFCA for the info.....Thanks

[Lee Crenshaw]

The MTFCA site shows a period diagram of what I described.
Lee