2 year-old Brassworks radiator leaking at top tank?

[Special Coupe Frank]

Hey guys,

Don't want to start any battles over who has the "best" radiator for the A, rather am wondering if anyone else has had this problem:

About two years ago, I purchased a "heavy-duty" Brassworks radiator for my '28 Coupe. It has performed very well for me.

Over the past month, I have noticed splatter on the fan blades and firewall, apparently from the vicinity of the inlet neck on the top tank, or one of the seams in that area.

There is no drip when the car is parked, or idling. It only appears to happen when the car is going down the road.

Hoses are newish and pliable, and the modern airplane clamps are tight.

I'm not losing much coolant, just enough to make a mess under the hood.

There's a good gasket in the stock cap ( correct radiator cap, not a vented gas-cap), and no signs of leakage around the neck / cap.

My radiator brace rods are secure and tight...

Anybody else been down this road with a B-W or other radiator ?




Thanks for any insights...

Special Coupe Frank

[feelsharp]

Had the same condition on a 15 T BW rad. Tank joints on front of rad began to weep. No apparent fix. Had a new rad made locally which works well. Understand BW quality is slipping.

[mkmskm]

Funny you should mention that, I spent this afternoon pulling my 4 year old 4 lb pressurized Brassworks out since it started leaking from the same seam at the middle top during the MAFCA Regional in Iowa last week. My car had suddenly started to overheat and lose coolant so I don't know yet if this was the cause or an effect. I pulled the head gasket today as well since I suspect after messing with the ignition stud that it started to leak. I plan to take the unit Tuesday to a local radiator shop to have fixed. Hey feelsharp, why couldn't yours be repaired?

[Special Coupe Frank]

More info... took a close look under the hood before my morning drive; the leak appears to be occurring at the bottom of the soldered flange of the inlet spout.

Again, no drippage when parked...

Hopefully this is something a local radiator shop can take care of..

Could there be some sort of chassis / engine issue that causes the upper radiator spout to tear-loose from the tank ? ( I am running stock motor mounts front and rear, new springs up-front, and new rubbers in the rears, everything has its nuts and cotters ...)




SC Frank

[1931 flamingo]

Brassworks
Paul in CT

[peters180a/170b]

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Another 180a owner had a hell of a time with BW top of the line radiator. Support rod bracket on top of tank was off some..

[Mike]

I have had 4 problems all with brass works radiator. 2 with bottom water neck leaking, 1 rad cap neck soder joint failed and 1 with the top water neck soder joint failed.
The fix was to pull radiators out of each car and silver soder the joints myself. the problem is they are butt sodered and they do not use enough soder.

MIKE

[Special Coupe Frank]

Mike,

Did you solder them-up with a torch or an iron ?

With the top-neck, did you have to use some sort of putty heat-sink "dam" to avoid running the solder out of adjacent joints ?

SC Frank

[Minn-Tex Lee]

I had similar problem with my Brassworks top tank when I first filled it up.
I talked to Lee at Brassworks he said they do not test them before shipping because he feared someone would think they were getting a used unit.
I soldered mine with a torch and it has been O.K. for 300 miles.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Having the worng water outlet on the cylinder head can cause undue stress on the top inlet to the radiator. 28-9 takes a SHORT outlet on the head, and the taller radiator used on 30-1 takes the taller outlet.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Good point Tom; I have the short outlet on my engine - the stub on the head-outlet and the inlet neck on the tank are in a straight line...

Frank

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Minn-Tex Lee

I had similar problem with my Brassworks top tank when I first filled it up.
I talked to Lee at Brassworks he said they do not test them before shipping because he feared someone would think they were getting a used unit.
I soldered mine with a torch and it has been O.K. for 300 miles.

That sounds like bunk... don't know why they couldn't dunk them in a tank and put a couple pounds of air on them and look for the bubbles...

Once a rad tests good, THEN you clean it up, paint it, and ship it...

I guess that would drive production costs beyond the point of profitability...

Minn-Tex Lee: did you re-attach your neck by tinning both surfaces, then sweating the two together, or did you place the parts, then run the solder along while applying the torch ? What type solder and flux ?


Thanks,

Frank

[Ice man]

I have used Walker for yrs and have never had a problem. I live in the Islands and dont need a fan on ether car I have built. They both have an electric fans with a manual switch and its never used unless traffic is really tied up. Walker has quality, and they work. Iceman

[The Brassworks]

Every Brassworks radiator is tested under 21 psi per Ford bluebrints

[1931 flamingo]

Mr Brassworks: How come there seem to be so many problems with your radiators??? This thread alone.
Paul in CT

[Mike]

I used a torch to soder the water neck, and when doing the top neck i was careful not to over do it with too much soder.

mike

[The Brassworks]

The test tank solution is a colored solution with a base pH to nuetralize and residual acid/flux and the pressure is significantly higher but the process described by Special Coupe Frank is essentially correct. Every radiator is tested this way.

The only thing which cannot be tested is a core with headers as it has no tanks.

[Mike V. Florida]

Brassworks are located in California. Are they allowed to use lead or do they need to use the tin stuff?

[Aerocraft]

If you look carefully at original Model A radiators, you will see that mechanical fasteners (small rivets) were used to secure and strengthen the attachment of the neck and both inlet and outlets. I have often wondered why the reproduction radiator manufacturers don't use rivets. I have seen some filler necks on repo radiators just "butt" soldered without any flange on the neck. That is just a leak waiting to happen. Gar Williams

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Brassworks are located in California. Are they allowed to use lead or do they need to use the tin stuff?

Yes. Even in the People's Republic of California you may used lead. The solder used is comprised of lead and tin.

[ltdann]

Funny, I have a radiator that has done the same thing. Not sure if it is Brassworks or not, but the neck has started to come off the radiator.

Rich Dann

[mkmskm]

Upon further looking my leak was not the fault of the radiator. My head gasket was starting to go in cylinder #3 so it was excess pressure into the system. I got it fixed and it will go back into the car tonight.

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by Aerocraft

If you look carefully at original Model A radiators, you will see that mechanical fasteners (small rivets) were used to secure and strengthen the attachment of the neck and both inlet and outlets. I have often wondered why the reproduction radiator manufacturers don't use rivets. I have seen some filler necks on repo radiators just "butt" soldered without any flange on the neck. That is just a leak waiting to happen. Gar Williams

Inlets are not butt soldered.

The solder joint used on an inlet to tank connection is commonly referred to as a lap joint. Rivets were used in 1928 and 1929 and they can be used again. A solder joint failure two years after construction may be caused by the same things that caused it in 1928; vibration and thermal cycling. Using rivets may not resolve that issue. Naturally, we will review the strength of this joint with its present construction and, if it is warranted, make a change to the product.

Butt solder joint would be done with silver solder which results in a joint stronger than the metals being joined.

As always, if anyone wants a modification to the product (including the addition of rivets) they need only call us directly and make the request. We make custom radiators every day.

[Mike V. Florida]

Brassworks, are you allowed to use lead solder or do you have to use the all tin stuff?

ALREADY ANSWERED AND I MISSED IT, SORRY

I was thinking that maybe the harder Tin only crap could have been a cause.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Brassworks, are you allowed to use lead solder or do you have to use the all tin stuff?

Mike, see post #20

[[email protected]]

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I have also seen issues in the past with some of the repro Motormeter rad caps causing leaks on the rad top tube by stress cracking the joint. Often you would not have a problem seeing these coolant leaks until you are pulling up a hill. The motormeter radiator cap flange sometimes rests directly on the rad shell and then the rad cap is fastened down with the allen cap screws inside the rad neck. If over tightened your motormeter / or quail rad cap can act like a gear puller on the rad top tube. Solution is to watch these clearances carefully. You can make the radiator filler hole bigger on the radiator shell for it to clear or raise up the motormeter collar flange by adding internal gaskets to raise it up high enough to clear the top of the radiator shell.

[Hobie Beneux]

I had a B/W in my 1931 Ford streetrod P/U with Chevrolet 355. I went out recently to work on it and the top tank and cracked in many places. I pulled it out and put in a Walker Z series Heavy duty radiator. B/W has fallen in their materials and craftsmanship. I'm happy Walker came to the rescue.
07/20/2014

HB.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I have also seen issues in the past with some of the repro Motormeter rad caps causing leaks on the rad top tube by stress cracking the joint. Often you would not have a problem seeing these coolant leaks until you are pulling up a hill. The motormeter radiator cap flange sometimes rests directly on the rad shell and then the rad cap is fastened down with the allen cap screws inside the rad neck. If over tightened your motormeter / or quail rad cap can act like a gear puller on the rad top tube. Solution is to watch these clearances carefully. You can make the radiator filler hole bigger on the radiator shell for it to clear or raise up the motormeter collar flange by adding internal gaskets to raise it up high enough to clear the top of the radiator shell.

I recently found out that the OEM manufacturer of the Radiators that are being sold by several Model A vendors is now being made with a new radiator top tube that is 1/8" longer then before. This is to address this issue of the motormeters / quails, etc. pushing down on the radiator shells.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Hobie Beneux

I had a B/W in my 1931 Ford streetrod P/U with Chevrolet 355. I went out recently to work on it and the top tank and cracked in many places. I pulled it out and put in a Walker Z series Heavy duty radiator. B/W has fallen in their materials and craftsmanship. I'm happy Walker came to the rescue.
07/20/2014

HB.

Seriously, you come dig up a 2 year old thread and speak about your street rod radiator in your first post? May I ask 'Why'??