The Ford Barn

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 03-02-2016, 05:16 PM

Giles, we are past the point of who is at fault, let us see if we can fix it.

Have you got it out of the car?

Is the crack and seat fixed at this point, or should Vern look at it?

Let's get the old Girl Running.

Take a bunch of pictures.

Pull the pistons and rods out.
Herm.

Tom Wesenberg · 03-02-2016, 09:04 PM

Yep, I'd like to see the pistons.

40 Deluxe · 03-02-2016, 11:08 PM

Here are some of the pictures I took when it came in to Vern at Arnold Motors, in Fort Dodge, Iowa.

By the way, if you want perfect motor work done, send it to Vern. 800-765-2926, a little plug there for him. He gets engines from all over.

Herm.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I wonder if Vern has a flunky assistant who does some of the work. The 59A engine in my '40 was done there about 7 or 8 years ago when my Dad still owned the car. It had noisy tappets from the get-go and the rear main pours out oil. I pulled the intake and found one tappet with about .023" clearance and some others at .017" and .018". Some valves are persistently sticking but that could be due to old gas before I replaced the gas tank. Anyway, it has to come apart again.

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 03-02-2016, 11:58 PM

Did you call Vern?

He has one assistant for about 30 years now, and I wish I knew as much as he did.

Nothing unusual about sticky valves in a flat head, especially new valves, and guides, and left to set for longer periods. Run some Mystery Oil through it.

Did your dad get hold of them at the time?

Herm.

40 Deluxe · 03-03-2016, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Did you call Vern?

He has one assistant for about 30 years now, and I wish I knew as much as he did.

Nothing unusual about sticky valves in a flat head, especially new valves, and guides, and left to set for longer periods. Run some Mystery Oil through it.

Did your dad get hold of them at the time?

Herm.

I agree on the sticky valve cause. It has had lots of MM in the tank as well literally drowned with MM and left to sit, several times. It was soaked from both ends when the intake was off. The valves all open and close at cranking speeds so the compression is good and is equal on all cylinders, but it misses at any speed above idle and sometimes at idle, and puffs out the tailpipe as well. With good cranking compression and visual valve action, I can't see why valve lash should vary by over .011".
And no, Dad didn't go back to Arnold Motor Supply as near as I know. He dealt with the branch in Fairmont, MN and probably didn't feel like pulling the engine out again and sending it off. When he died going on six years ago at age 96 I tried finding his receipts but couldn't.

40 Deluxe · 03-03-2016, 02:27 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

I agree on the sticky valve cause. It has had lots of MM in the tank as well literally drowned with MM and left to sit, several times. It was soaked from both ends when the intake was off. The valves all open and close at cranking speeds so the compression is good and is equal on all cylinders, but it misses at any speed above idle and sometimes at idle, and puffs out the tailpipe as well. With good cranking compression and visual valve action, I can't see why valve lash should vary by over .011".
And no, Dad didn't go back to Arnold Motor Supply as near as I know. He dealt with the branch in Fairmont, MN and probably didn't feel like pulling the engine out again and sending it off. When he died going on six years ago at age 96 I tried finding his receipts but couldn't.

Oh, and I don't think the engine has even 2,000 miles on it since the rebuild, maybe closer to 1,000. Dad just drove it in parades and around the countryside occasionally.

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 03-03-2016, 12:22 PM

Mr. 40 Deluxe, I just got off the phone with Vern, and he said to get your dads name so he could see if they still had any record of the engine yet.

If also an address, at that time.

Bruce will be calling me also.

After though here, if the valves have .016 thousandths clearance, except one with .023, that wouldn't make them stick, or miss, and as you have all the same compression, it doesn't sound like valves to me, it sounds like spark to me, and a spark jumping where it should not, or something weak.

Verns number again. 800-765-2926

40 Deluxe · 03-03-2016, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Mr. 40 Deluxe, I just got off the phone with Vern, and he said to get your dads name so he could see if they still had any record of the engine yet.

If also an address, at that time.

Bruce will be calling me also.

After though here, if the valves have .016 thousandths clearance, except one with .023, that wouldn't make them stick, or miss, and as you have all the same compression, it doesn't sound like valves to me, it sounds like spark to me, and a spark jumping where it should not, or something weak.

Verns number again. 800-765-2926

Herm, Thanks for your interest! I will try calling Vern in the AM. I just called to leave a message but no voice mail. I'm thinking one or more valves are sticking because at a fast idle (and sometimes normal idle) it will do the suck-a-shop-rag-up-the-tailpipe trick. This was common with 360 Dodge Magnum engines at the AZ Hiway Dept. where I worked. A Dodge 3/4 or 1 ton would come in with a miss and loss of power. I would walk to the back of the vehicle and hold a shop rag near the tailpipe and it would flutter in and out of the pipe. To prove to the boss it was valve seat recession I would pull a valve cover, pop off the rockers and lay a straight edge on the valve stems and it would teeter-totter on the high stem. Compression was low, too. Plus it's easy to hear, too.
By the way, I have the car in Arizona so I doubt anything could be done, but my Dad's name was Enoch Kittleson in Sherburn, MN.

Chris in CT · 03-04-2016, 09:24 AM

Hi Gilitos, One thing here that is sure to generate some disagreement is the break-in procedure. I subscribe to the process of running the engine at a quick idle only (not a race!) until the engine gets no hotter than emitting the first evidence of steam vapors at the radiator. Then it is shut off and allowed to cool. This process is repeated until the engine will run without getting hot enough to emit steam vapors. Then the car is taken on drives not exceeding 40 mph with the same proviso: no steam coming from the radiator. The head is torqued down until it holds its setting.
T-bird, what am I missing here? Oil wells? Other than the fact that the bearings are shot, they don't look abnormal to me. Help me out...

03-02-2016, 05:16 PM	#41
Kohnke Rebabbitting Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524 Posts: 1,457	Re: Why did this rod fail? Giles, we are past the point of who is at fault, let us see if we can fix it. Have you got it out of the car? Is the crack and seat fixed at this point, or should Vern look at it? Let's get the old Girl Running. Take a bunch of pictures. Pull the pistons and rods out. Herm.

03-02-2016, 09:04 PM	#42
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Why did this rod fail? Yep, I'd like to see the pistons.

03-02-2016, 11:08 PM	#43
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,778	Re: Why did this rod fail? Here are some of the pictures I took when it came in to Vern at Arnold Motors, in Fort Dodge, Iowa. By the way, if you want perfect motor work done, send it to Vern. 800-765-2926, a little plug there for him. He gets engines from all over. Herm.[/QUOTE] Hmm, I wonder if Vern has a flunky assistant who does some of the work. The 59A engine in my '40 was done there about 7 or 8 years ago when my Dad still owned the car. It had noisy tappets from the get-go and the rear main pours out oil. I pulled the intake and found one tappet with about .023" clearance and some others at .017" and .018". Some valves are persistently sticking but that could be due to old gas before I replaced the gas tank. Anyway, it has to come apart again.

03-02-2016, 11:58 PM	#44
Kohnke Rebabbitting Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524 Posts: 1,457	Re: Why did this rod fail? Did you call Vern? He has one assistant for about 30 years now, and I wish I knew as much as he did. Nothing unusual about sticky valves in a flat head, especially new valves, and guides, and left to set for longer periods. Run some Mystery Oil through it. Did your dad get hold of them at the time? Herm.

03-03-2016, 12:22 PM	#47
Kohnke Rebabbitting Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524 Posts: 1,457	Re: Why did this rod fail? Mr. 40 Deluxe, I just got off the phone with Vern, and he said to get your dads name so he could see if they still had any record of the engine yet. If also an address, at that time. Bruce will be calling me also. After though here, if the valves have .016 thousandths clearance, except one with .023, that wouldn't make them stick, or miss, and as you have all the same compression, it doesn't sound like valves to me, it sounds like spark to me, and a spark jumping where it should not, or something weak. Verns number again. 800-765-2926

03-04-2016, 09:24 AM	#49
Chris in CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 272	Re: Why did this rod fail? Hi Gilitos, One thing here that is sure to generate some disagreement is the break-in procedure. I subscribe to the process of running the engine at a quick idle only (not a race!) until the engine gets no hotter than emitting the first evidence of steam vapors at the radiator. Then it is shut off and allowed to cool. This process is repeated until the engine will run without getting hot enough to emit steam vapors. Then the car is taken on drives not exceeding 40 mph with the same proviso: no steam coming from the radiator. The head is torqued down until it holds its setting. T-bird, what am I missing here? Oil wells? Other than the fact that the bearings are shot, they don't look abnormal to me. Help me out...