The Ford Barn

gilitos · 02-28-2016, 08:08 PM

About 100 gentle miles on the rebuild. Newly poured rods on a new Burlington crankshaft. Highly reputable builder known to many on this forum. Full flow filter. Began to knock like heck. This happened a year ago but after all I went through for a no-holds-barred rebuild, I was too beartsick to pull the motor apart to see what happened until now.

The bad one is #2; I also pulled #3 cap and took a picture for comparison. Dipper trays were full of oil and #3 journal was dripping oil when i pulled it apart, so I don't think it was a pump failure. The crankshaft journal is visually okay.

Anybody have an opinion? Should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? Thanks for opining!

Flathead · 02-28-2016, 08:17 PM

Clearance was checked at assembly? Dipper on rod was facing the right way? Piston looks OK? No sign of it seizing? It really sucks when you try to do the right thing and this happens.

J Franklin · 02-28-2016, 08:37 PM

It looks like it was too tight. What weight oil was used? check the pump output after it is fixed.

George Miller · 02-28-2016, 09:28 PM

I would say that both are bad.But it looks like the dark one was getting hot like the lack of oil.

Spokes · 02-28-2016, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilitos

About 100 gentle miles on the rebuild. Newly poured rods on a new Burlington crankshaft. Highly reputable builder known to many on this forum. Full flow filter. Began to knock like heck. This happened a year ago but after all I went through for a no-holds-barred rebuild, I was too beartsick to pull the motor apart to see what happened until now.

The bad one is #2; I also pulled #3 cap and took a picture for comparison. Dipper trays were full of oil and #3 journal was dripping oil when i pulled it apart, so I don't think it was a pump failure. The crankshaft journal is visually okay.

Anybody have an opinion? Should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? Thanks for opining!

What did your rebuilder think ???

Tom Wesenberg · 02-28-2016, 10:40 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

I would say that both are bad.But it looks like the dark one was getting hot like the lack of oil.

I was thinking the same thing.

What was the break in procedure?

With so few miles, it isn't even broke in yet.

George Miller · 02-28-2016, 10:43 PM

Are the open side of the dippers facing the camshaft? Might be a good time for some new insert rods.

gilitos · 02-28-2016, 10:44 PM

Breakin procedure is drive it slow and easy.

Mike V. Florida · 02-29-2016, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

It looks like it was too tight. What weight oil was used? check the pump output after it is fixed.

It really really sucks when you try to do the right thing and this happens.

Too tight was my first thought. What did the builder say? I would have sent it back. Even if it cost a few hundred dollars, but now you opened it he can't see clearance, alignment, etc any more. To have a new person look at it it going to cost thousands more then the shipment.

tbirdtbird · 02-29-2016, 12:39 AM

folks he has no oil wells

Tom Wesenberg · 02-29-2016, 04:03 AM

I wonder why the side thrusts are completely broken away on #2?

700rpm · 02-29-2016, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

folks he has no oil wells

Bingo.

Synchro909 · 02-29-2016, 05:43 AM

Looks to me like the failed one was poured a little cold. The worker's attention only has to be taken away from the job for a while for the melt to drop in temp. That would explain the broken edges too.

George Miller · 02-29-2016, 09:00 AM

If you look at the so called good one, it is starting to change color also. Plus the contact area is not right. I think it is not getting enough oil, like maybe the pump is not working right. If it was mine I would go over every thing. But it looks also like the rods were never done right.

goodoldvic · 02-29-2016, 09:07 AM

Who was the rebuilder?

Tom Wesenberg · 02-29-2016, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilitos

About 100 gentle miles on the rebuild. Newly poured rods on a new Burlington crankshaft. Highly reputable builder known to many on this forum. Full flow filter. Began to knock like heck. This happened a year ago but after all I went through for a no-holds-barred rebuild, I was too beartsick to pull the motor apart to see what happened until now.

The bad one is #2; I also pulled #3 cap and took a picture for comparison. Dipper trays were full of oil and #3 journal was dripping oil when i pulled it apart, so I don't think it was a pump failure. The crankshaft journal is visually okay.

Anybody have an opinion? Should the motor be torn down and rebuilt? Thanks for opining!

He has full flow oil filter, but no mention of pressure oiling, and he did say his dipper tray was full.

I was also wondering if the cap got installed backwards, but I can't imagine an engine builder making that kind of mistake.

I wonder who did the rod babbit?

Vicky · 02-29-2016, 10:28 AM

Lack of lubricant is clear.

1. Does the Rod surface look the same?

2. It appears that there is material build up on #2, so maybe the cap wasn't flush with the rod when assembled?

3. The cap may have been installed the wrong way, not allowing the oil to be picked up. Most likely to me, since I think it uses the "Dipper" to oil the rod journals.

4. If it is an oil pump problem, wouldn't the mains be a bigger problem?

5. If the engine is pressurized, shouldn't the holes be plugged?

I would get with the builder. It clearly isn't any thing you have done wrong, as long as the engine had the oil the builder recommended.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-29-2016, 10:51 AM

How much oil was drained, what was in it, and how did it look?

Were the head nuts torqued often enough to keep them tight, so no coolant got in the oil?

gilitos · 02-29-2016, 10:59 AM

Thanks for all the comments. So #3 looks like it may have been on the way out? The babbitt surface was very oily when I disassembled it.; it's not dark or scuffed. I figured that the uneven color was the process of a bearing bedding in.

Caps were all installed in the correct direction.
It's not a pressurized system.
I will definitely talk with the builder but I want other opinions first.
I wouldn't call out the builder unless it was clearly their fault and they didn't work to resolve the issue.

gilitos · 02-29-2016, 11:08 AM

Also, I drained about 3.5 qts of oil and it looked fine. It was between the marks on the dipstick. There are now fine droplets of babbitt on the inside of the block around #2. I'll tell you what, that's pretty ugly!! I should post a picture of that for the gallery of Model A horrors.

02-28-2016, 09:28 PM	#4
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: Why did this rod fail? I would say that both are bad.But it looks like the dark one was getting hot like the lack of oil.

02-28-2016, 10:43 PM	#7
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: Why did this rod fail? Are the open side of the dippers facing the camshaft? Might be a good time for some new insert rods.

02-28-2016, 10:44 PM	#8
gilitos Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 209	Re: Why did this rod fail? Breakin procedure is drive it slow and easy.

02-29-2016, 12:39 AM	#10
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Why did this rod fail? folks he has no oil wells __________________ '31 180A

02-29-2016, 04:03 AM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Why did this rod fail? I wonder why the side thrusts are completely broken away on #2?

02-28-2016, 08:17 PM	#2
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,498	Re: Why did this rod fail? Clearance was checked at assembly? Dipper on rod was facing the right way? Piston looks OK? No sign of it seizing? It really sucks when you try to do the right thing and this happens.

02-28-2016, 08:37 PM	#3
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,961	Re: Why did this rod fail? It looks like it was too tight. What weight oil was used? check the pump output after it is fixed.

02-29-2016, 05:43 AM	#13
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Why did this rod fail? Looks to me like the failed one was poured a little cold. The worker's attention only has to be taken away from the job for a while for the melt to drop in temp. That would explain the broken edges too. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

02-29-2016, 09:00 AM	#14
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: Why did this rod fail? If you look at the so called good one, it is starting to change color also. Plus the contact area is not right. I think it is not getting enough oil, like maybe the pump is not working right. If it was mine I would go over every thing. But it looks also like the rods were never done right.

02-29-2016, 09:07 AM	#15
goodoldvic Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: New Jersey shore Posts: 257	Re: Why did this rod fail? Who was the rebuilder?

02-29-2016, 10:28 AM	#17
Vicky Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 235	Re: Why did this rod fail? Lack of lubricant is clear. 1. Does the Rod surface look the same? 2. It appears that there is material build up on #2, so maybe the cap wasn't flush with the rod when assembled? 3. The cap may have been installed the wrong way, not allowing the oil to be picked up. Most likely to me, since I think it uses the "Dipper" to oil the rod journals. 4. If it is an oil pump problem, wouldn't the mains be a bigger problem? 5. If the engine is pressurized, shouldn't the holes be plugged? I would get with the builder. It clearly isn't any thing you have done wrong, as long as the engine had the oil the builder recommended.

02-29-2016, 10:51 AM	#18
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Why did this rod fail? How much oil was drained, what was in it, and how did it look? Were the head nuts torqued often enough to keep them tight, so no coolant got in the oil?

02-29-2016, 10:59 AM	#19
gilitos Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 209	Re: Why did this rod fail? Thanks for all the comments. So #3 looks like it may have been on the way out? The babbitt surface was very oily when I disassembled it.; it's not dark or scuffed. I figured that the uneven color was the process of a bearing bedding in. Caps were all installed in the correct direction. It's not a pressurized system. I will definitely talk with the builder but I want other opinions first. I wouldn't call out the builder unless it was clearly their fault and they didn't work to resolve the issue.

02-29-2016, 11:08 AM	#20
gilitos Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 209	Re: Why did this rod fail? Also, I drained about 3.5 qts of oil and it looked fine. It was between the marks on the dipstick. There are now fine droplets of babbitt on the inside of the block around #2. I'll tell you what, that's pretty ugly!! I should post a picture of that for the gallery of Model A horrors.