Surviving examples 400A vs 68C

[Maclab58]

Curious, I own a 68C and have for 3 years now and I have never seen another one in person. I have been to numerous swap meets and attended the Texas tour this year and I was the only one, there were 4 examples of the 400A. Is the 68C more rare as a survivor? Just wondering.

[C26Pinelake]

Dont we wish! I have a 68 C that would trade in a heartbeat for a 400A. In my area it is very, very uncommon to see a 400A. I will bet a 400 is worth 10 thousand more than my 68C. Wayne

[Oldbluoval]

I think they are about the same as far as rarity. However, I cannot put numbers to it. I actually have several bodies of both and am re-wooding them slowly. I also make parts for both cars and the interest (albeit slow in both) seems to be about the same.
The A400 has some draw-backs and subject to more "fault-finding". The 68C is a really super little body style. The criticism basically there is that it is a two-seater and a rumble seat ain't good for nothing except show and running up the cost. Rumbles are also a bit dangerous IMHO

[Kevin in NJ]

It is interesting as several people I have known have owned 68C's sold them and then bought another cause they missed it.

To some extent the 400A is the holy grail of restoration. Technically it was the highest end car of the day. So you tend to hear more about them. They also have many more unique parts that can not be found when compared to the 68C.

As far as safety, I grew up with in a rumble seat. Today it kind of scares me some. Kind of wish I had a 160 body (a 160C would be neat) cause I have 2 young boys.

[DJ S]

I know of at atleast two examples in my town alone... There are more out there than you think.

[Jeff P. / MN]

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Having owned both a 400-a and 68-a, I would take the cabriolet over the Conv Sedan any day of the week. I did drive a 160-b for 9 years and enjoyed it. When my two boys were young I drove a good old Tudor, no worries at all about what went on in the back seat, they could not fall out of the car!

[160B]

Dennis Smith put together the production numbers by body number. Here is the link

http://www.mafca.com/downloads/Techn...dy_Numbers.pdf

the following data is of interest for the 160C, 1931 68B and A400

Approximate # Produced *

4589* 160-C Briggs 331 1931 S/W Deluxe Fordor Sedan (2W)
160-C Murray 1931 S/W Deluxe Fordor Sedan (2W) included 160-C Briggs

4959* 68-B Briggs 161 1931 Cabriolet 4,959

5072* 400-A Murray 400 1931 Convertible Sedan 5,072

[Fire Fox]

I found and bought a 68C, it was a local car disassembled and stashed in a barn for years. Unfortunately it's missing most of those rare parts that are impossible to find unless you get them from Mr Underwood. I wanted to build a post war banger out of it until I found out how few there are of them out there so I listed it in the for sale section hoping someone might trade me a roadster or good coupe for it but have had no luck on trades. The parts that I'm missing could possibly be down there because the barn was full of old car parts, I could be over looking some.

[C26Pinelake]

Just because a vehicle has low production numbers does not necessarily make it desirable. A good example is the Edsel. I would gladly trade my 68C for a 400A Wayne

[Fred A]

The most interesting 68C I've seen is an A-V8 that was seen at the Orange County Pancake Breakfast this year. Again, most of the difficult parts were missing but the rod application was superb for the slant windshield.












a

[ronn]

The most interesting 68C I've seen is an A-V8 that was seen at the Orange County Pancake Breakfast this year. Again, most of the difficult parts were missing but the rod application was superb for the slant windshield.

Dont know if it was the same one Fred, but one sold on the bay in the last year for a very low sum from the northeast. Estate sale and it went for a pretty low price and looked real good.

[C26Pinelake]

What are the difficult parts to find for the 68C ? Wayne

[marc silva]

What body is a 68c?

[DougVieyra]

68-C - late 1931 Slant windshield cabriolet

[mrraford]

I'm hoping to finish restoring my 68C in my lifetime. Fortunately, I have all of the critical parts but am lacking the ability to work on it in the summer heat. I'm pretty sure I'll end up with maybe the only one in the State.
I've seen 400As before and they are nice cars but the window frames are distracting when the top is down.

[Kevin in NJ]

FWIW, there is a 68C that has been advertised in the classsifieds here for a while. The price does not seem unreasonable for what appears to be a mostly complete car.

Not mine mind you.

[31Abone]

forever4 ...explain a little about distracting window frames when top is down ? you lost me on this one..sc?

[DougVieyra]

Mr RafFORD: Post # 12 : "I've seen 400As before and they are nice cars but the window frames are distracting when the top is down."
_________________________

My sentiments exactly !
Whereas the 68-C has cleaner lines.
I somehow missed seeing the distracting window frames on the Slant Window Cabriolet, that brothers ForeEver4, post # 13.

[Mike V. Florida]

Never seen a 400A in person.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by forever4

Cabriolet window frames are also distracting when the top is down.

One of us is confused ( I think it's you ) forever4. There is no frame when the top is down. Please explain. Wayne

[Kevin in NJ]

They might look nice with the top up, but for some tall people the headroom with the top down is important

[DougVieyra]

Forever4, Post #18 -
Ahh, semantics.
You say Tomato, I say Tomatoe.

What you call a Window Frame, I call a Glass Frame.
If we are comparing the A-400 fixed structural framing for the side windows, to the Cabriolet, one will quickly notice that the Cabriolet does not have such an awkward structural framing for the side windows - hence a much better visual appearance.

[Joop]

400-A Top down and top up (file photo)

Click image for larger version.

...

[DougVieyra]

Thank you Joop.

Your photo does two things -

#1 - Lets us all see just what an A400 (some like to designate it the more proper 400-A) looks like.

#2 - Clearly illustrates the awkwardness (subjective evaluation, I know) of the A400 structural side window framing, as compared to the unobstructed lines of the 68C Slant Window Cabriolet.

[taffrail]

Would like to have the 400-A door size on my CCPU !

[Jeff P. / MN]

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As an owner/driver of each of these models I can offer a little insight. The 400-a window frames were no distraction for me when the top was down and I was driving. The top was somewhat cumbersome to lower. I have only driven my Cabriolet once with the top up when I was caught is a rainstorm, I always have driven it top down. I have had the side windows up with the top down and really did not feel the window frames were any kind of an obstruction. As a side note I would like to drive a '30-'31 Deluxe Phaeton. I suspect it may possess some of the same issues which led me to sell my 400-a and obtain my 68-a.

[Jason in TX]

I'm biased. I love my 68C. Great all around car for any occasion.


Charlottesville, VA


Ouray, Colorado




Santa Fe, NM


Durango, CO

[DougVieyra]

Jason in Texas, Post # 25 -

Okay, Jason - I will give you TWO of my fully restored, prize-winning A-400 / 400-A Convertible Sedans, for your 68-C Slant Window Cabriolet !

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

Jason in Texas, Post # 25 -

Okay, Jason - I will give you TWO of my fully restored, prize-winning A-400 / 400-A Convertible Sedans, for your 68-C Slant Window Cabriolet !

You're too late. Jason said he's tired of it and will sell it to me.

[blgitn]

Jason,

I love your 68-C too.

R/ Roger

[petcar]

Thanks for the link to production numbers 160B. The problem I have though is finding the total for the 1931 160-C Murray. I know the car is scarce, it took me years to find mine ( and damn near a divorce when the wife say what I paid for it ). Since then I have been scouring every place I can find to figure out the production numbers. I contacted several MAFCA members that I was told would know these things. and Between the skeptics & people who proceeded to lecture me on the likelihood that I had a 31 160-C Murray Dlx Not one could help. ( It's on the MAFCA web page as the A of the Day if you want a peek at it. )

I am "REALLY hoping that one of you fine gents could help with this. I would really like to know just how many were made.

my apologies for straying from the 68c topic!

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by petcar

Thanks for the link to production numbers 160B. The problem I have though is finding the total for the 1931 160-C Murray. I know the car is scarce, it took me years to find mine ( and damn near a divorce when the wife say what I paid for it ). Since then I have been scouring every place I can find to figure out the production numbers. I contacted several MAFCA members that I was told would know these things. and Between the skeptics & people who proceeded to lecture me on the likelihood that I had a 31 160-C Murray Dlx Not one could help. ( It's on the MAFCA web page as the A of the Day if you want a peek at it. )

I am "REALLY hoping that one of you fine gents could help with this. I would really like to know just how many were made.

my apologies for straying from the 68c topic!

Ford has the production records for 1931 called the Assembly Record Types (ART)...this tells us the production number of each model assembled by the Ford Motor Company.

In the 1931 ART, the 160-C (Deluxe Fordor Sedan Slant Window/Briggs and Murrary) numbers were intermingled with the 170-B (Deluxe Fordor Sedan/Briggs) figures.

There was no known breakdown between the Briggs and Murrary body styles.

USA had 3231; Foreign had 1358; Canada had 378. The 1932 ART tells us that only the foreign market produced these at 202 (160-C).

The 160-CDL replaced the 170-BDL in July 1931.

HOWEVER...Stated in the book "The Ford Model A as Henry Built it" it states that there were 2491 160-C's (DL) and 740 170-B's (DL) built in 1931.

Pluck

[petcar]

Thank you Steve! I've been on this quest to find numbers for 12 years, it's starting to resemble the old Monty Pythons show Search for the holy grail. I think from now on when someone asks how many were made I'll answer "At least 1, beyond that your guess is as good as mine." Thanks again sir!

[forever4]

Originally Posted by petcar

Thank you Steve! I've been on this quest to find numbers for 12 years, it's starting to resemble the old Monty Pythons show Search for the holy grail. I think from now on when someone asks how many were made I'll answer "At least 1, beyond that your guess is as good as mine." Thanks again sir!

Petcar,
Murray made at least 234 flat firewall 160-C sedans like yours from the data I have.

[larrys40]

Hope to get to mine awaiting restoration soon down the road. Acquired in 2012 last licensed looks like in 1955 and I bought from the owner who had it since 1970 who did nothing to it except store it in a cinder block basement. Unfortunately the wood needs total replacement and everything needs total restoration. Thanks to a number of you I have secured most everything I need to complete it. My once in a lifetime find for sure.

Haven't decided upon a nice driver yet or point car but I'm looking forward to cracking at it when time allows. All the bolt on sheet metal is trashed but suitable originals are fortunately secured including correct radiator shell. Not sure on color yet so that's my biggest decision. Special thanks and recognition goes to Tim Wiggins up in Chicago for alerting me on this ebay "buy it now" find. I was litterally boarding a plane at his call and did it immediately. The retreival is another story in itself I will one day write for the Model A News. I also have to thank Gary Johnson ( as I've probably drewled on his more than once) for his insight of my introductory advice and knowledge which helped prepare me.

Yes, I do think they are a beautiful body style and are the best of both worlds of the open car body styles. Also include a photo as it was our Missouri Valley Region MARC annual start up party car that year.
Here's a link to one of our start up videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWe8Ex_aWTI

Larry Shepard

[Maclab58]

I love my 68-C but I really want a A-400. It covers all the bases for me, open car, roll up windows and a back seat! I have 3 A's and I think I could be happy with owning an A-400 if I could only have one.

[stewwolfe]

I wouldn't give up my 68C for almost anything. It's a comfortable, fun car to drive. I also realize that I would never find another one.