Castle nuts and cotter keys

[Maclab58]

Has anyone used lock washers and skipped the cotter keys? They are such a pain and I think that the use of lock washers is just as safe. Any opinions besides the deviation from original? This is a driver not a points original car.
Thanks!

[30ccpickup]

You will get varing answers and in the end it is your choice. But, if you want to be 100 percent safe with wife, kids, and grandkids I would stick with the castle nuts and cotter pins. And yes they are a pain, referring to the cotter pins that is.

Paul

[CarlG]

Just don't use stainless cotter pins if you ever intend to remove them.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

With a lot of Old Timers, like Chief, it was a fine art to set cotter keys JUST right! VERY tight & the ends trimmed JUST RIGHT!
On Vermin, ALL the keys had their legs just BARELY spread apart!
Bill W.

[Pinesdune]

I've never had a problem on old tractors/equipment using lock washers instead of cotter pins, just always use the cotter pins/wire where it's cast housings bolting together (lock washers don't bite the cast very well)

[mshmodela]

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No question to me castle nuts and cotter pins are the safest connection --if done properly...

[WestCoast]

like Bill Williamson says, cut the short leg of the cotter pin off even with the nut, spread the long leg apart about a 1/4", it will never fall out and god it is easy to straighten out the very slightly bent key leg and pull out, my knuckles don't care about correctness when working on these things

[ian Simpson]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

No question to me castle nuts and cotter pins are the safest connection --if done properly...

In my motor cycle racing days (and on my street bikes too) I used Loctite and Nyloc nuts (self-locking nuts with nylon inserts). If the bolt or screw went into a blind hole, the head was drilled for wiring to help out the Loctite. Never had a problem, and those bikes really did vibrate! I know it is not a Model A, but could not resist sharing this picture of me from 1966.

Now on the Model A, I use whatever the factory did (plus Loctite in some blind holes), never had a problem either.

By the way, they are split pins, cotter pins are those things like Snyders part number A-3122/24. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/locking-bolt-nut

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I am living proof that the UK and the USA are two countries separated by a common language!

[WestCoast]

Ian, what ever they were called, they are now cotter pins in the hobby

[Pete]

I use Marsden nuts.

[Roadster62]

Sure the factory never did it but having all the bolts and cotter pins clocked sure make for a nice looking assembly. Bob

[noboD]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

No question to me castle nuts and cotter pins are the safest connection --if done properly...

Amen. There are different quality lock washers, some too smooth and they come loose.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by noboD

Amen. There are different quality lock washers, some too smooth and they come loose.

SMOOTH doesn't matter, it's the off set ends at the slit, that "dig" in & lock stuff.
I "wonder" if they make L/H lockwashers for L/H threaded BOLTS/NUTS????
Some say that lockwashers don't work against CAST IRON, YES, they do, just look, they "dig" in good, better than a flatwasher/lockwasher combo!

Bill Puzzled?

[mshmodela]

If aircraft industry commonly uses Castle nets and cotter pins, the question of safety is
fairly clear:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...Chapter_07.pdf

http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14014/css/14014_119.htm

http://www.experimentalaircraft.info...building-3.php

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo.../an310_320.php

[Marvin/TN]

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I am living proof that the UK and the USA are two countries separated by a common language!

Truer words were never spoken. I lived in England for almost two years and am married to a Brit for over 52 years.

[Maclab58]

I have yielded to the cotter key gods.

[Synchro909]

By the way, they are split pins, cotter pins are those things like Snyders part number A-3122/24. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/locking-bolt-nut

Sorry to be so pedantic, but I am living proof that the UK and the USA are two countries separated by a common language![/QUOTE]

We in Australia refer to them by their correct name too - they are split pins. Cotter pins are something altogether different. As for a common language, that is becoming less and less so as the American keep changing things. Who had ever heard of a ZERK!:eek Known elsewhere as a Grease nipple: A ring gear goes on the flywheel a CROWN WHEEL goes in the diff. The list keeps getting longer.
Let's not start on American spelling and grammar.

[Pete]

We don't ask for American beer when we go to Oz.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Pete

We don't ask for American beer when we go to Oz.

That's probably just as well - you're not likely to find it.
I must say that when I was over there, I didn't mind the American beer at all (well, some of it).
On top of what I said in my last post, I was impressed by the manners shown by people over there too. Very courteous - made for a very pleasant trip.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

That's probably just as well - you're not likely to find it.
I must say that when I was over there, I didn't mind the American beer at all (well, some of it).
On top of what I said in my last post, I was impressed by the manners shown by people over there too. Very courteous - made for a very pleasant trip.

Some of my best friends live down under.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Pete

Some of my best friends live down under.

Sorry for your loss.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Sorry for your loss.

Good one....LOL

[Lycoming-8]

One of the biggest improvements over Castle & cotter is what Mercedes uses for the bearing nuts on front axles. The Castle nut is replaced by a horseshoe nut with a screw passing thru the two open legs of the shoe. Once the nut is tightened to just right amount for the bearing, the screw is tightened to lock the nut in place. Probably a tad more expensive, but there is no too loose or over tight situation to get the castle to line up with the hole thru the spindle !!!

[Pinesdune]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

SMOOTH doesn't matter, it's the off set ends at the slit, that "dig" in & lock stuff.
I "wonder" if they make L/H lockwashers for L/H threaded BOLTS/NUTS????
Some say that lockwashers don't work against CAST IRON, YES, they do, just look, they "dig" in good, better than a flatwasher/lockwasher combo!

Bill Puzzled?

I've had bad luck using lock washers on cast. Maybe I was using cruddy washers, maybe it was hard cast, it was twenty ish years ago now so I can't remember even what tractor it was on, but I tried washers over the wire and got bit, had to go back and wire it up. Never tried it again.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Lycoming-8

One of the biggest improvements over Castle & cotter is what Mercedes uses for the bearing nuts on front axles. The Castle nut is replaced by a horseshoe nut with a screw passing thru the two open legs of the shoe. Once the nut is tightened to just right amount for the bearing, the screw is tightened to lock the nut in place. Probably a tad more expensive, but there is no too loose or over tight situation to get the castle to line up with the hole thru the spindle !!!

I first encountered that kind of nut on VW Bugs, many years ago.
Bill W.

[ian Simpson]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I first encountered that kind of nut on VW Bugs, many years ago.
Bill W.

I met them on conveyor belt and elevator machinery more then fifty years ago, but only on really big stuff, typically on the ends of rollers and drive shafts with diameters greater than 1 inch. There was also another variety where the nut was cut more than halfway across at ninety degrees to the thread and a screw inserted parallel with the thread. When the screw was tightened, the nut was deformed locking it in place. Can't remember the name of the things.

[glenn in camino]

I always use them.

[CarlG]

I got tired of hunting down the exact cotter pin, I built this:

[G&N Farms]

Just use a nail. Drive it through and hit it with a hammer to bent it a bit.



As a professional auto tech, I saw this method a lot. Always use a new pin, it's a pin to me, a key goes in a slot.

To Ian, when I raced bikes in the 70's, we had to safety wire everything and I mean everything.

[AF Texan]

I realize we're not talking about aircraft maintenance, but in my experience, castellated nuts are used when a minimum of torque is required...hence a cotter pin to keep the castellated nut in place. A lock-washer is designed to be used with a plain nuts when self-locking or castellated type nuts are not applicable. The spring action of the washer prevents the nut from becoming loose. To me, it sounds like the castellated nut has a specific purpose if installed on a certain component for a specific function. Just my two cents....