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11-24-2022, 05:33 PM | #1 |
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New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Hello
I have a rebuilt engine for 1930 Model A and finally finished install last week. Today went to crank the engine by hand to set the timing and could not find the dimple on the timing gear, took out a spark plug #1 and hand cranked, piston is not moving but the hand crank turns. It's been about 6 months since I got the engine back from the rebuilder. Should I take out plugs and remove starter, oil the cylinders and then try again? Mark Underwood Gig Harbor, WA |
11-24-2022, 05:43 PM | #2 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
MMMM So I take it the engine has not been fired since you got it back. I would pull the rest of the plugs and slowly hand crank again to see if all the pistons are in fact moving. Did you get a warranty from the builder? Best contact him before anything is removed to avoid any potential warranty issues.
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11-24-2022, 05:56 PM | #3 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Busted crankshaft? That would be odd,. Was the timing gear moving?
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11-24-2022, 06:44 PM | #4 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Yeah, put a flashlight in through the hole for the timing pin and see whether that gear is moving. That’s the most likely spot for problems. You can also put the car in gear and push it back and forth, see if the piston moves.
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11-24-2022, 07:01 PM | #5 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Are you sure you were looking at piston and not the valve? you could remove side timing cover and look to see if indeed timing gear etc are moving. Or like stated above push car in gear, might be just tight but you said couldn't find the dimple so i assume it is turning over.
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11-24-2022, 07:12 PM | #6 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-24-2022, 07:46 PM | #7 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-24-2022, 07:53 PM | #8 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-24-2022, 08:21 PM | #9 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
If the piston is near the top or bottom it takes quite a bit of crankshaft movement before the piston moves a lot. I think you need to re-check this, the crank turning with no piston movement on a rebuilt engine is really pretty close to an impossibility unless it was gross incompetence by the builder. Even gross imcompetence really doesn't cover that bad of an error.
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11-24-2022, 10:16 PM | #10 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-24-2022, 10:28 PM | #11 |
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11-24-2022, 11:07 PM | #12 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
A broken crankshaft is not at all unknown but as has been said, on an engine that hasn't even run????
I think we need to be looking elsewhere.
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11-25-2022, 01:09 AM | #13 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Well one thing for sure, it will be interesting what gets found.
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11-25-2022, 02:18 AM | #14 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Take the small timing cover off be aware there is a oil pan bolt up from underneath , When you turn the crank you can see if the timing wheel rotates . This is a very very odd never ever heard of this before .
John in rare sunny morning Suffolk County England . |
11-25-2022, 03:10 AM | #15 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Pull the oil fill tube out and you can see the crankshaft you may need a flashlight you will be able to see the crankshaft moving or not moving
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11-25-2022, 09:03 AM | #16 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
perhaps it is stuck valves, they are more visible through the spark plug hole, there still isn’t a reply from the original poster
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11-25-2022, 09:07 AM | #17 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
I would not take anything apart just yet. As others have said, a piston not moving is highly unlikely. Remove all four plugs. Normally you would do this to inspect the plugs prior to timing. Now the engine should turn over easily. Hold you thumb down on one of the spark plug holes and have someone hand crank the engine a few turns while the thumb is in place against the hole. If no resistance is felt get in touch with the engine builder. If you start removing parts your engine builder will probably be hard to deal with.
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11-25-2022, 09:19 AM | #18 | |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Quote:
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11-25-2022, 10:42 AM | #19 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Weird. Is the pulley in front moving when hand cranking? Maybe the hand crank is not engaging correctly? I am also interested in learning what is found.
Try turning the engine over with the flywheel ring gear and a screw driver, or the starter.
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11-25-2022, 04:38 PM | #20 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
The OP has only 2 posts. Is this thread serious or is he just stirring us up?
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11-26-2022, 02:17 AM | #21 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
I am wondering about two things that are being said. (1) The dimple is not very apparent on some cars. The dimple in the timing gears tend to be shallow and the timing pins tend to be blunt. In other words, when the pin drops into the dimple it can be oh so subtle. (2) looking down the spark plug hole, the piston is not right below the hole. It is at an angle to the front of the hole and towards the left side of the car. Use a bright flashlight. You can also verify that the timing gear is moving by observing the rotation of the distributor shaft. Like has been said; on a recently rebuilt engine, it seems unlikely that the pistons are not moving up and down as you crank. On the off chance that is the case, the next stop should be back to the rebuilder.
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11-26-2022, 09:16 AM | #22 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-26-2022, 09:27 AM | #23 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
To me, this thread has went to yadda yadda yadda until we hear back from the original poster. Perhaps too embarrassed to reply?
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11-26-2022, 12:37 PM | #24 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Interesting for sure as he is in our club roster and probably lives 20 minutes away.
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11-26-2022, 01:26 PM | #25 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-26-2022, 03:06 PM | #26 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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1. Put Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder. 2. Used a 12 volt battery out of my Toyota. 3. Hooked the car up to a John Deere tractor using low gear. 4. With the car in neutral, got the car slowly rolling. 5. Shifted into first gear and very, very carefully started to let out the clutch. I could hear the clutch start to engage. 6. Then with the clutch partially engaged, I hit the starter button. The hood was off so I could see the fan. When the starter bumped the engine, it started to turn and I let the clutch all the way out. We towed the car for about a mile. You never heard so much yelling and laughter, I was so happy. I thought that was going to be the end of the tight engine but it wasn't. I had to go throuh this procedure for several days when all of a sudden the car turned over with the starter normally. After this I got the car ready to run on gasoline. Initially I ran the car for very short periods 5-8 minutes and then cooled the engine. Also torqued the head after each trial. The today runs just perfectly. Good luck, Ed |
11-26-2022, 03:16 PM | #27 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
I have another recommendation concerning the timing pin issue. Take all the plugs out and rotate (that is after you get the engine moving) the engine until you feel air blowing out number one cylinder (the compression stroke), then watch the piston and when it gets to the top of the cylinder (and then some slight amount), stop turning. You are at top dead center on number one. Forget the timing pin. Ed
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11-26-2022, 04:18 PM | #28 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
He said the pistons don't move, that is the mystery. Finding TDC. is not.
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11-26-2022, 05:41 PM | #29 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-26-2022, 07:06 PM | #30 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
He hasn't been back on the site since 10 minutes after he posted.
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11-26-2022, 07:38 PM | #31 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Give him time. It took him 7 years after his first post to make this post,
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11-26-2022, 11:11 PM | #32 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
True
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11-27-2022, 02:06 PM | #33 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Thanks for all the suggestions, I will get into the shop today. No time until today due to the Holiday.
Mark |
11-27-2022, 07:03 PM | #34 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
What a Cluster, I am novice mechanic at best.
1. Confirmed crankshaft was moving via oil filler tube- good tip. 2. I was looking at the valve vs. piston head as one responder suggested. 3. Panic set in when the distributor was not turning and I couldn't find the timing gear dimple as I had not turned over the engine in some months. 4. Turns out I forgot the lower distributor shaft when I put the distributor on. 5. The dimple is very vague but I found it finally. I am sorry if I wasted people's time, I guess live and learn. I mess around with these cars to relieve stress from my job which has been elevated during the pandemic, maybe someday the damn thing will run again. Mark Underwood |
11-27-2022, 07:48 PM | #35 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
You didn't waste anyone's time. Glad that you came back and let us know what you found. You are not the first person nor the last to forget to put in the lower shaft. I've found myself on a couple of occasions forgetting to put the rotor back into the distributor and then wonder why suddenly there is no spark.
The dimples can be awfully small on the new timing gears. In the future use a small / short phillips screw driver to find the dimple instead of the timing pin. Works for me.
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11-27-2022, 09:05 PM | #36 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Hi Mark,
I am glad things worked out. Don't be embarrassed, we have all been neophytes at one time. Owners will drill the dimple deeper when they get new timing gears.
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11-27-2022, 09:20 PM | #37 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
The dimple on my Town Sedan is a PITA to find. I finally installed a Nu-Rex timing indicator so I don't have to deal with it
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11-27-2022, 11:27 PM | #38 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Blockhead’s post is what Idid as well
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11-28-2022, 02:36 PM | #39 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
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11-29-2022, 09:35 AM | #40 |
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Re: New Rebuilt Engine - Pistons not moving
Y-Blockhead, I assume you have fixed the hand crank guide and U bolts for the front spring. I had to get a used guide as the repos require a different U bolt. I had to do some grinding on my guide to get it to fit.
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. |
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