Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2019, 10:36 AM   #1
mfarley
Member
 
mfarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 84
Default Help me identify engine noise?

My Tudor, after a good 30-45 minute drive at 40mph speeds, makes a rotational scraping noise (tzing-tzing-tzing) at low idle that I believe is coming from the lower engine area. If I shut the engine off and start it again, it goes away until driven the same way again. If I run the engine in higher idle, the noise goes away. Never makes this noise when cold. I've ruled out water pump, generator/alternator, clutch, etc.

My one theory is...could it be the oil pump? Could it be that after running for that length of time, that enough oil is atomized/in the dipper tray and the screen clogged enough that it could be starving for oil? I've not had the pan off recently, so I don't know what condition the pump screen is in.
mfarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 10:56 AM   #2
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,092
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Have you gone around with a broom handle or mechanics stethoscope to hone in on where the noise is coming from? If not get the engine to make that noise and see if it's loudest right down by the oil pump.



How did you rule out the water pump, generator and clutch? Did you run the engine with the belt off?


Would be great if you could record the sound.
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-12-2019, 11:13 AM   #3
mfarley
Member
 
mfarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 84
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Yes, I've run the engine without the belt. Since it stops when the engine does, running without the belt doesn't usually result in the noise. To chase this, I have run both generator and alternator, two different fan belts, steel fan and aluminum fan, and the water pump is an eighteen months old leakless. I've also spun each of these by hand and no issues. The noise is too low in the engine compartment for me to seriously consider the water pump.
mfarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 12:11 PM   #4
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,332
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

How about using your phone camera in video mode, short video/sound, post to u-tube, post a link here to the u-tube video.?
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 12:18 PM   #5
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,092
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Yup I would concur that you can definitely say that the noise is not accessory related. Can't think of anything down low that would make that noise sort of noise.


How did you determine that is isn't clutch related?
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 01:02 PM   #6
Farrell In Vancouver
Senior Member
 
Farrell In Vancouver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Perhaps you have a starter bolt too long and when the clutch is pushed the flywheel is rubbing the bolt end?
Farrell In Vancouver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 01:10 PM   #7
mfarley
Member
 
mfarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 84
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

I've never done anything with/to the starter. It's been in the car for at least twenty years.

Moving the clutch pedal all the way in or out does not affect the noise.

I'll have to see if I can "prompt" the car to make the noise, and then post it somehow.
mfarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 02:27 PM   #8
Marshall V. Daut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Davenport, Iowa
Posts: 2,083
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Check your private messages.
Marshall
Marshall V. Daut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 07:39 PM   #9
Mulletwagon
Senior Member
 
Mulletwagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Florida Panhandle
Posts: 585
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Might suck in some Marvel Mystery Oil just to eliminate any top end possibilities.
Mulletwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 08:11 PM   #10
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

"Might" be a vibration in the L/H hood side, or 79,231 other things----LOL
Bill Noisy
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 08:34 PM   #11
monto
Senior Member
 
monto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: NH
Posts: 182
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Consider the distributor shaft may be thirsty. Mine was. Your description of noise sounds similar. Lube took care of it.
__________________
'30 Coupe
monto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 09:32 PM   #12
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Could it be the starter drive pinion moving forward and hitting the flywheel teeth?


Very unlikely, but never say never.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2019, 09:36 PM   #13
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,332
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
Could it be the starter drive pinion moving forward and hitting the flywheel teeth?


Very unlikely, but never say never.


To test - remove the starter and hand crank start and see if noise disappears?
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 10:36 AM   #14
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,011
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

I had a similar noise, it was the springs or the plate of the front motor mount where it sits on the crossmember. A little oil shut it right up.
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 12:05 PM   #15
jm29henry
Senior Member
 
jm29henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,126
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Did you check the throw out bearing in the bell housing there is also a grease fitting that requires grease ,that noise maybe radiating through the bell housing hope this helps Joe !
jm29henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 07:18 AM   #16
mfarley
Member
 
mfarley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 84
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Yes, I had considered the throwout bearing. It's been about 2K miles since I greased it, so it does need to be serviced. Maybe I need to shorten the interval on this one?
mfarley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 07:36 AM   #17
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,092
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

The modern throw out bearings that are sold are sealed for life. Even if they weren't I don't think the method Ford came up with for getting grease up to the bearing is very effective.
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 08:00 AM   #18
Dave in MN
Senior Member
 
Dave in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jordan, MN
Posts: 1,410
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Monto (post#11) may have properly suggested to oil your distributor. If your distributor is putting extra load on the oil pump drive gear, the loaded drive gear can cause the camshaft to walk forward and make a grinding noise as it bottoms against the plunger and spring.
This condition usually results in a thumping or knocking noise but maybe....
It is an easy test to add some oil.
Hope you find the cause soon. Let us know what it is if you do.
Good Day!
Dave in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 08:33 AM   #19
TerryH
Senior Member
 
TerryH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fountain Valley, Calif.
Posts: 937
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

One other thing to check: if you have engine pans check to be sure that one of the mounting flanges hasn’t broken. Tom Endy alerted that to me when my A was making a funny noise, and that was the cause. He had experienced it before, usually with repro pans.
TerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 06:38 PM   #20
Benson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,579
Default Re: Help me identify engine noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
Could it be the starter drive pinion moving forward and hitting the flywheel teeth?


Very unlikely, but never say never.

To: Tom W,


I have seen it happen 4 or 5 times on my car and customer's cars in 40,000 miles in the 60's when using A as daily driver and working at Restoration shops.




I used to post about this problem and other oddball problems that I have seen in 55 years but after several "POOH POOHs" ... i quit posting about them altogether.

Last edited by Benson; 08-16-2019 at 03:23 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 PM.