Murray door wood patterns?

[scl009]

I just got some doors for a 1930 Murray. Wood is completely rotted away but the skins are in great shape. Gonna "give it a go" at making the wood supports myself. Any website have diagrams or schematics with measurements for the wood pattern? I just can't afford $600 plus for some wood for the doors.

Thanks Scott

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Best wishes to you.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by scl009

I just got some doors for a 1930 Murray. Wood is completely rotted away but the skins are in great shape. Gonna "give it a go" at making the wood supports myself. Any website have diagrams or schematics with measurements for the wood pattern? I just can't afford $600 plus for some wood for the doors.

Thanks Scott

The topic of wood comes up often and most often the poster asks for patterns. Sorry there are none readily available.

[Terry, NJ]

Dear Scott, Too bad it's not a Briggs. I'm making Briggs door wood right now and I could give you a few pointers. Are you sure it's ALL rotted away? Even small pieces can give you a dimension or two. Or you can buy two of the kits(Front and rear) and duplicate as a mirror image, the other side. If you're patient, you can "Develope" most of the dimensions. For instance. You will notice that the inside of the doors are smaller than the outside, only the sides and bottom of the doors. This taper is about 2-3 deg.
But it means you'll have to set your Table saw blade on a 2-3deg. angle AFTER you make the piece. BTW, I've developed the height (Or length) of the door, on my Briggs Town sedan to be 40 1/2 inches. It's too bad you're not closer to Pa. I could provide you with a plank of Ash for $35, from which you could get all four (It is four isn't it?) doors. Ash is what Henry used, also walnut, beech and other woods. For equipment, you'll need a powerful table saw, 10 in. dia. capacity.( I use an old Grizzly that I found,1 1/2 HP. Don't use a saw like a modern sears, you'll burn out the motor) a drill press w/ 1/2 " chuck. a belt Sander. An angle gauge, a GOOD 6' scale, a GOOD adjustable 12" square. A 24 " scale and a vernier caliper and lot's of patience. If you don't have all of these sitting around, they are available at your local flea markets for a minimal cost.
Post your problems as you go, we'll try to answer them for you.
Terry

[Terry, NJ]

Scott, You can get the curve of the doors by laying the door against the wood and tracing. BUT The only place where it will be the same is at the center posts. The outer surface is a curve, the inner surface is a flat with an angle at the bottom. Also, The front of the doors is not the same as the rear. If you need a set of Murray window frames ,9pcs, 2 front drs, 2 rear drs, 2 1/4 windows and garnishes,and rear window no door garnishes, I have them. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. Good luck!
Terry

[jeep44]

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You have a Murray Fordor,right?. Recently, I picked up a big pile of original wood for a Murray,but I didn't know at the time that it was Murray (I have a '30 Briggs). I paid $20 for most of the interior wood. I will have to get it out, and see what I have in the way of Door wood, and how it might be shipped, if you are interested. I know I have those difficult lower back door pieces-they would be very hard to make without a pattern.

[Arlen]

Jeep44: PM sent

[jeep44]

I'm sorry-I thought I had the rear door pieces, but what I have are the rear sills thatmake up the framework around the rear door opening-I guess I spoke too soon. What I have is a pile of disassembled, unlabeled wood pieces, and it's like looking at a jigsaw puzzle-it's hard to tell what a lot of them are, even when I look at the inside of my Briggs.

[scl009]

Whelp I'm getting started... I have two front doors. Starting on the passenger side. I think I can piece together what wood is left or reverse engineer what's gone from the drivers side. If I'm successful I'll put it all in autocad or make up some blueprints or something.

Didn't have any ash or birch so I'm using oak, bought from the big box store, and glued together to get the thicknesses I need.

[Terry, NJ]

Oak, ash, walnut whatever! Ash is my first choice but others will work too. Don't overlook good pallet wood too. And don't forget the angles. When you look at the door, top edge down, you'll note it is angled to the inside of the car (it's easy to overlook) IIRC it's 2-3Degrees. You can trace and shape the 4 edges of the 4 doors where the doors meet at the center post by tracing and shaping and fitting against the outside skin of the doors. Cut these four pcs together. Cut them about an inch longer that you think they'll finish up at, you may have some adjustments to make as far as length and position, On the Briggs, The top of the wood corners are joined with mortise and tenons. You'll need about a 3/8 square wooden strip that fits in the corner of the door. As you go further, post your questions, and I (or others) will try to answer them.
Terry

Originally Posted by scl009

Whelp I'm getting started... I have two front doors. Starting on the passenger side. I think I can piece together what wood is left or reverse engineer what's gone from the drivers side. If I'm successful I'll put it all in autocad or make up some blueprints or something.

Didn't have any ash or birch so I'm using oak, bought from the big box store, and glued together to get the thicknesses I need.

[scl009]

Welp $140 ryobi table saw and $100 router table from harbor frieight and this is what I have so far. Some minor touch ups with respect to the curve, routing out the hole for the window slides, figuring out the mortise for top and bottom wood, and I think I'm there.

I think I'm finally catching on to the 3 degree taper thing and that might be why its not fitting so perfectly yet.

Thanks Terry

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Word of caution Terry, make sure your door shell has the exact same contour as the body shell and pillar post BEFORE you take your measurements or cut your door wood. Generally what we do is fit the body wood and install it in the body first, then fit the door shell to the body & pillar followed by bracing the door shell so it holds the correct shape prior to doing any wood layout or installation.

[Marco Tahtaras]

I take a slightly different approach than Brent. I make sure the doors are absolutely true without any twist and fit the body to the doors. The tops (upper half) of the doors (and corresponding body pillars) must be on the same plane. Not only is this the way they were but any twist in the doors adds a level of bind to the windows when raised or lowered. Additionally, the door shell assemblies have relatively fixed dimensions assuming they aren't badly damaged. I use the doors to establish the door gaps both inside and out which is controllable in the body pillars.

With that said, if you aren't reconstructing the body then Brent's suggestion is extremely valid. The wood in the doors totally controls the stability as it relates to twist. Without the wood the doors can twist dramatically. If you fit the wood to a twisted door it will forever be twisted unless you either redo it or attempt to "cheat" which will result in a less than stable door. Every joint in the door plays a roll in locking in the shape. On the front doors the bottom kick plate has the most significant impact. Less so on the rear doors so the other joints are even more important if you don't want the bottoms of the doors to sag outward from the body.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Brent is right, make sure you fit the wood in the doors mounted to the body. I did the left rear door on my Murray on the bench and when I mounted the door it wouldn't close, hung up on the dog leg because the contour had flattened out. Had to take it apart and reglue.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by scl009

Welp $140 ryobi table saw and $100 router table from harbor frieight and this is what I have so far. Some minor touch ups with respect to the curve, routing out the hole for the window slides, figuring out the mortise for top and bottom wood, and I think I'm there.

I think I'm finally catching on to the 3 degree taper thing and that might be why its not fitting so perfectly yet.

Thanks Terry

Yes! That three degree thing can make you crazy! Anyway, That looks like a great start. But you're not done yet! Once you do get in just the right place determined by the position of the lock (Note the large notchout in one of Marco's pictures) You must fit it to that steel plate that supports the lock and window regulator assy. Get all this positioned and you're ready to trim the ends to length (IIRC 40 1/2" on my Briggs, No guarantees that's what it is on a Murray) Also there is a center cross piece just below the window. This piece is tenoned at both ends and fits into a mortise in the vertical (uprights) pieces. Again, Is a Murray the same? I honestly don't know! Marco cut a notch, fitted the crosspiece and bolted his together. I hope you roughed out all four of these pieces It will take some of the work out of this for you. Just remember that the fronts and rears are different in respect to the angles (3 deg,)
Best of luck! Terry