Bypass oil filter

[jeepguy1948]

I do not need to hear any reasons for not wanting to use a bypass oil filter so if that is your opinion, well, that’s your opinion and I’m not asking for you to share it with me, this is simply a hypothetical question. If a Model A owner chose to use (for whatever reason) a bypass oil filter, which type is best (of the bypass filter systems available)? Thanks

[alexiskai]

I think there’s only one design that’s commonly available?

[katy]

Read this:https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...pass&showall=1

Some fellows make their own bypass filter setup, something like this:

[5lugnuts]

I did something like #3 above and it was good. Flathead Ford v8 always had a bypass filter and it trapped a lot of sludge. I drilled and tapped the valve cover and took the oil from the side of the block. I ordered the adapter on line and made my own bracket different from above but really the something.

[ndnchf]

Perhaps it would help if you specified the "available" bypass systems you are referring to. I did quite a bit of research before purchasing and installing this one from Snyders. It is the only complete system that I found. As others mentioned, with a little enginuity, one could be put together from various parts.

The kit from Snyders (and others) is a very good kit, but the casting needs some minor prep work. I discussed what to do in detail in this thread.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318133

I've put 3 or 4 hours driving on mine so far. No leaks at all. I'm very happy with it.

[jeepguy1948]

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When I originally posed the question I did not know of any specifically nor did I know how many options there was. Now I know, there’s two (1) that you buy from the usual sources, and (1) that you build yourself.

[ndnchf]

Unless you already have parts laying around to build your own, the complete kit is the way to go. Just be sure to prep the casting as I mentioned. Good luck!

[jeepguy1948]

Thanks for the help Guyz!

[Chris Haynes]

I used a Frantz Oil Cleaner on my Early '30 AA for decades. It kept the oil a clean as honey.
https://www.frantzfilters.com/

[old31]

Are both adapters M6880 A50 and M6880 B50 usable. Is one as good as the other.

https://www.amazon.com/M-6880-B50-De.../dp/B08TB4BKC3

Also, is the system that katy shows (#3) better than a full flow from the vendors?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by old31

Are both adapters M6880 A50 and M6880 B50 usable. Is one as good as the other.

https://www.amazon.com/M-6880-B50-De.../dp/B08TB4BKC3

Also, is the system that katy shows (#3) better than a full flow from the vendors?

Both A50 and B50 work. A50 is preferred by many people, as it has a more "period" look. However, A50 has been discontinued and is only available sporadically via eBay, swap meets, etc.

The filter setup shown in post #3 is a "partial-flow" filter, which is different from either a full-flow or bypass. While a full-flow filter takes in the full volume from the oil pump and returns it to the engine, and a bypass takes in a small fraction of volume and returns it to the sump, a partial-flow filter takes in a small fraction of volume and returns it to the engine. So it's sort of a hybrid.

My personal opinion is that the partial-flow setup pictured in #3 is less effective than the other two alternatives. Because the system returns oil up to the valve chamber, rather than down to the sump, there is back-pressure due to gravity on the filter. Since the filter is only taking in a small fraction of the oil volume, the pressure across the filter is low to begin with. This results in further decreased flow, so the amount of oil filtered per unit time is the least of the three methods.

Having said that, for Model A purposes, it's fine, it'll get the job done.

[old31]

Alexi, thanks and good explanation.

[GeneBob]

Alexiskai,
I am confused on the terms. Would the Snyder's kit be a bypass because it returns the oil to the sump albeit over the timing gears? The partial flow is because it goes to the valve cover where it is going to the bearings and dipper tray?
Thanks

[amclass]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Both A50 and B50 work. A50 is preferred by many people, as it has a more "period" look. However, A50 has been discontinued and is only available sporadically via eBay, swap meets, etc.

The filter setup shown in post #3 is a "partial-flow" filter, which is different from either a full-flow or bypass. While a full-flow filter takes in the full volume from the oil pump and returns it to the engine, and a bypass takes in a small fraction of volume and returns it to the sump, a partial-flow filter takes in a small fraction of volume and returns it to the engine. So it's sort of a hybrid.

I wonder, if someone ever cut an oil filter open to see if the oil pressure is enough to use the whole filter or if the filter is only used at the lower portion because of the lack of proper oil pressure ...


ndnchf: Your filter looks kinda cute, while the original that comes with the kit look somehow bulky. What filter do you use ...?

[SDJason]

Originally Posted by amclass

...ndnchf: Your filter looks kinda cute, while the original that comes with the kit look somehow bulky. What filter do you use ...?

I believe ndnchf noted that here in a previous thread
(Purolator PBL14670)

[ndnchf]

Originally Posted by SDJason

I believe ndnchf noted that here in a previous thread
(Purolator PBL14670)

Yes, that is what I used. Its a high quality filter, yet less bulky.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by amclass

I wonder, if someone ever cut an oil filter open to see if the oil pressure is enough to use the whole filter or if the filter is only used at the lower portion because of the lack of proper oil pressure

The whole filter is always used, for two reasons: (1) capillary action causes the filter media to take up oil across its entire width; (2) the oil will seek the lowest-pressure area, so it will occupy the voids in the "intake" zone preferentially before it gets pushed through the filter by the oil behind it.

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Alexiskai,
I am confused on the terms. Would the Snyder's kit be a bypass because it returns the oil to the sump albeit over the timing gears? The partial flow is because it goes to the valve cover where it is going to the bearings and dipper tray?
Thanks

The Snyder's kit is considered a bypass even though it doesn't technically return straight to the sump – the timing gear is close enough. All bypass systems are also partial-flow systems, but not all partial-flow systems are bypass systems. The "partial" refers to the fact that it's filtering just a fraction of the oil coming off the pump, in contrast to "full-flow," which filters all the oil every cycle.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Alexiskai,
I am confused on the terms. Would the Snyder's kit be a bypass because it returns the oil to the sump albeit over the timing gears? The partial flow is because it goes to the valve cover where it is going to the bearings and dipper tray?
Thanks

Originally Posted by alexiskai

the partial-flow setup pictured in #3 is less effective than the other two alternatives. Because the system returns oil up to the valve chamber, rather than down to the sump, there is back-pressure due to gravity on the filter. Since the filter is only taking in a small fraction of the oil volume, the pressure across the filter is low to begin with. This results in further decreased flow, so the amount of oil filtered per unit time is the least of the three methods.

GeneBob, You and me both. I don't see the difference between a bypass system and a partial flow system. Maybe I need a picture to explain it.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Ruth

GeneBob, You and me both. I don't see the difference between a bypass system and a partial flow system. Maybe I need a picture to explain it.

Sorry for the confusion. A bypass system is a partial-flow system, but they're normally called "bypass" systems because, instead of returning oil to the engine for lubrication, they bypass the engine and return it back to the sump.

[GeneBob]

Alexiskai,
I understand now. It is a subtle difference in that the "bypass" isn't from the oil pump, the "bypass" refers to bypassing the oil supply into the bearings etc and goes to a zero back pressure return to the oil pan.

I like the way the Snyder's kit returns the oil onto the timing gears which is a pretty direct path to the oil pan.
Thanks,
Gene

[GeneBob]

I was just looking at the oiling system for the Model A engine.
It looks to me like there should be a metering hole in the true "bypass" system to ensure a sufficient supply of oil to the oil galley since this system taps into the oil path that feeds the oil galley. I suspect the resistance of the oil filter itself may provide enough restriction to the bypass flow to ensure this.
On the other hand the "partial flow" system returns the oil to the oil galley thus eliminating any concern that the oil filter system would starve the oil galley of its proper volume of oil.
Interesting trade off.

[ndnchf]

I don'r know if you guys follow Adrian's Astra-Werke youtube channel, but he has a video you may be interested in. Its about installing the bypass oil filter. You can skip the first 4 minutes where he tried unsuccesfully to make his own oil filter system. He tests the bypass filter kit's flow and at the end comments on how much cleaner his oil looks at the 1500 mile point.

https://youtu.be/PkyNgPPTziU

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

I was just looking at the oiling system for the Model A engine.
It looks to me like there should be a metering hole in the true "bypass" system to ensure a sufficient supply of oil to the oil galley since this system taps into the oil path that feeds the oil galley. I suspect the resistance of the oil filter itself may provide enough restriction to the bypass flow to ensure this.
On the other hand the "partial flow" system returns the oil to the oil galley thus eliminating any concern that the oil filter system would starve the oil galley of its proper volume of oil.
Interesting trade off.

This is an often-discussed aspect when designing DIY bypass systems: what is the size of the restrictor port that you put in front of the filter so that it doesn't divert too much oil? I have not considered this an issue with the Snyder's/Kenz bypass kit because, well, there's a lot of smart folks who worked on that kit and I just assume they thought that part through. The brass elbow that installs at the block has a 3/16" restrictor on it. For pressurized systems, 1/16" is a size you see a lot.

Interestingly, Amsoil sells a bypass system for modern cars that goes the other way – they have you install a restrictor in front of the full-flow filter. The effect of this is to increase the back-pressure at the oil pump, which (according to them) is supposed to cause the computer to run the pump harder, which then increases the flow going through the bypass without decreasing the flow going through the stock full-flow filter. I guess the tradeoff is wear on your oil pump. Just an odd piece of trivia I came across.

[GeneBob]

Well, I guess the oil filter is not enough restriction then.
I saw the video, it is fun to see what people try when left to their own inventiveness.

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

This is an often-discussed aspect when designing DIY bypass systems: what is the size of the restrictor port that you put in front of the filter so that it doesn't divert too much oil? I have not considered this an issue with the Snyder's/Kenz bypass kit because, well, there's a lot of smart folks who worked on that kit and I just assume they thought that part through. The brass elbow that installs at the block has a 3/16" restrictor on it. For pressurized systems, 1/16" is a size you see a lot.

Interestingly, Amsoil sells a bypass system for modern cars that goes the other way – they have you install a restrictor in front of the full-flow filter. The effect of this is to increase the back-pressure at the oil pump, which (according to them) is supposed to cause the computer to run the pump harder, which then increases the flow going through the bypass without decreasing the flow going through the stock full-flow filter. I guess the tradeoff is wear on your oil pump. Just an odd piece of trivia I came across.

Can you furnish the link for us? I would like to read this.

John

[alexiskai]

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Originally Posted by johnneilson

Can you furnish the link for us? I would like to read this.

John

OK, hmm, I was remembering it slightly wrong. This was the BMK-13 dual remote setup. There is a restrictor placed in front of the FF filter, which increases the upstream pressure, which causes more oil to flow through the bypass, which is upstream of the FF. I couldn't find any official Amsoil lit about it, but here's a discussion on a tribology forum.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-bmk-13.48297/

[johnneilson]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

OK, hmm, I was remembering it slightly wrong. This was the BMK-13 dual remote setup. There is a restrictor placed in front of the FF filter, which increases the upstream pressure, which causes more oil to flow through the bypass, which is upstream of the FF. I couldn't find any official Amsoil lit about it, but here's a discussion on a tribology forum.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-bmk-13.48297/

hhmmm,
OK, it is not computer controlled, it is referring to a multi filter element system where one filter returns oil to the engine in a non pressurized area.


John

[GeneBob]

I found I still have a remote oil filter mount that has been bouncing around in my tool box for 40 years. I am tempted to put together a set up like Katy shows in post #3.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by johnneilson

hhmmm,
OK, it is not computer controlled, it is referring to a multi filter element system where one filter returns oil to the engine in a non pressurized area.


John

Yeah, I must've just invented that in my memory.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

I found I still have a remote oil filter mount that has been bouncing around in my tool box for 40 years. I am tempted to put together a set up like Katy shows in post #3.

I've also seen bypass setups that modify one of the inspection cover bolts to accept a small return line from the filter. The returned oil goes through the bolt and dumps into the timing gear area. Sorta like a Snyder's kit by other means. The advantages would be (a) greater flow because gravity isn't working against you and (b) easier to remove, no need to buy a fresh valve cover.

[GeneBob]

Alesiskai,
That sounds intriguing. Do you have a source or know where I could find some pictures?
Thanks,
Gene

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by GeneBob

Alexiskai,
That sounds intriguing. Do you have a source or know where I could find some pictures?
Thanks,
Gene

Took me six weeks but I tracked down a picture for you. This is an ad from The Restorer, Jan 1971. This particular one does modify the valve cover, but you can imagine one that doesn't.

[alexiskai]

And for good measure, here is the first ad for the full-flow valve cover kit, from The Restorer, May 1986. A classified ad for this appeared the previous year, Mar. 1985, that read in part, "I can’t keep a secret! Now there is a full flow oil filter for Model A’s. A quality product that works. Filters all oil before it is circulated thru engine, $119.95. First introduced at 1985 MARC business meeting."

[GeneBob]

Thanks AlexisKai

[Lee29coupe]

No matter what you do, if the oil being pumped up the oil shaft past the spring that holds the pump, spacer and distributor spacer in the cam valley increases oil pressure that is higher than the tension of the spring let’s the oil out into the valve chamber. That bypasses the entire oil filter setup, think of the spring that the oil pump shaft goes thru as a pressure relief that’s cracks open when ever oil pressure exceeds spring strength. I think Ford would design every part of the oil system as “fail to the safe mode” with the distributor/oil pump spring and spacer being off seated if oil pressure exceeds spring pressure. I bet the after market tube that goes into the oil passage to the oil filter produces enough back pressure to allow oil to escape before it even gets to the filter and dumps into the valve chamber all the time. The oil you find in the filter is probably a small amount that shots into the filter setup that pulsates in with the pulsating relief of pressure of the oil spring. Don’t get me wrong, if I could insure oil in my coupe is filtered I would be first line to do it. Would be interesting to put a pressure gauge at the intake of the filter and one at the outlet to see I if there is flow. Bet most oil is bypassed into the valve chamber due to pressure over riding the spring. Look at the design next time valve cover is off, you can displace the oil spring/spacer with your finger. I still have the filter valve cover filter set up I will sell cheap, cash only.

[Werner]

Hi everyone,


If I have understood all of this correctly:

The delivery volume of the oil pump through the filter is very easy to see if the end of the return pipe is made through a short piece of transparent hose at the bottom.

[katy]

Years ago I worked on some 3406 "Cat" engines that used both a full flow and a bypass oil filter. Anyone ever tried this on a Model A?