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09-15-2022, 07:27 AM | #21 | |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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09-15-2022, 07:43 AM | #22 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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09-15-2022, 11:05 AM | #23 | |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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Yea, asking if that box might have had anything to do with the measurements IS a far cry from calling someone a drunk |
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09-15-2022, 11:31 AM | #24 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
Seriously? Insinuating someone has a drinking problem is simply wrong!
Last edited by Billybob57; 09-16-2022 at 07:39 AM. |
09-16-2022, 01:01 PM | #25 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
I have been seriously interested in The Burtz block since it came out, butt.... This donnybrook only reinforces what I planned all along. I will not be buying one until somebody with a good reputation is offering them as a ready to go “Crate Engine” this would save me having to deal with any of these issues, the machine shop, engine builder, engine assembler would have to deal with any QC issues and I’m sure that if there were issues the factory would be eager to eliminate them for future blocks. Just my $0.02
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09-16-2022, 01:14 PM | #26 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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09-16-2022, 08:06 PM | #27 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
I think that Terry Burtz will sort this matter out. Suggest letting the dust settle and await his findings.
I have not heard of anyone with problems with the BURTZ engines. If or when I need a new engine, I plan on using the BURTZ. A 5 main, counterweighted engine. takes care of a few problems with the HENRY design. However, I must say the HENRY design suits me just fine. DOn't drive it like a race car and change the oil every 500 miles. |
11-29-2022, 03:11 PM | #28 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
Background and Update on this thread, “Where is Paul Shinn?”
On August 27, Paul Shinn released a Youtube video showing his engine builder, Willie Baechler, measuring the machined surfaces of the two new engine kits that he purchased from us in early 2022. Many of the measurements were reported to be severely out of tolerance, and the conclusion was that extensive machining at a substantial cost would be necessary to produce one good engine. There were many forum posts from both engine builders and owners that disagreed with the way Willie measured the parts and the negative posts caused Paul to take down his video shortly after it was posted. It was imperative that we determine if there was a problem or not because it would be an indication that the entire production of engine kits could have a problem resulting in a costly recall. We have not seen any such problems to date. Our parts are manufactured on automated machines, and if one part has a problem, it is likely that all parts in the production run will have the same problem. In October, we posted "Where is Paul Shinn" on the forums. He responded and agreed to get his 2 engine kits (#111 and #123) evaluated by a 3rd party engine builder/machinist. At Paul’s request, we provided 4 builder recommendations and suggested he interview and pick one of the 4. Hanford Auto Supply in Hanford, CA was selected by Paul after his conversations with the owner (see https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100057543524018). Paul brought the two engine kits to Hanford Auto Supply and he posted on Nov 4th: “Spent almost all day in Hanford with Tim yesterday, shot hours and hours of video of our work. Lots of information was gathered and learned, and I'm excited to share it soon! Video will be in post production for a week or two.” The crankshafts and cylinder blocks were each measured with regard to critical specs and the report from Hanford Auto Supply follows: We checked the main bore diameters, and crankshaft journal diameters, and runout. The main bore diameters all measured to within 0.001” of specification (2.125”) and the crankshafts were all within correct journal specification with 1 having a measured runout of less than 0.002” and the other at around 0.001”. The bore diameter measurements are as follows: Block# 111 Main: #1: 2.1245 #2: 2.1250 #3: 2.1247 #4: 2.1250 #5: 2.1255 Block# 123 Main: #1: 2.1240 #2: 2.1250 #3: 2.1240 #4: 2.1250 #5: 2.1252 The crankshafts were installed, the main caps torqued, and we used Plastiguage to check clearances: Block# 111 Main: #1: 0.0015” #2: 0.0020” #3: 0.0015” #4: 0.0020” #5: 0.0015” Block# 123 Main: #1: 0.0015” #2: 0.0020” #3: 0.0015” #4: 0.0020” #5: 0.0015” Both crankshafts rotated freely; #123 has a spot where rotation is slightly snug. Both blocks will be built as they are; we feel all the machining and runout are within acceptable tolerances and the blocks can be built as they are - out of the box. A video showing how the crankshafts rotate in cylinder blocks #111 and #123 can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDP6ExdsRrc The measurement data from Hanford Auto Supply has shown the blocks to be within spec for build. We had hoped and expected that Paul would post his video of the detailed measurements taken at Hanford Auto Supply, however, Paul has advised us that he does not intend to publish the video report. Last edited by JRLampl; 12-01-2022 at 11:48 AM. |
11-29-2022, 09:15 PM | #29 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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11-29-2022, 09:26 PM | #30 | |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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I can not open it. It takes me to a Login page.
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11-29-2022, 09:26 PM | #31 | |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHU72ono93w |
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11-29-2022, 11:39 PM | #32 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
4bangerbob,
Thanks for the link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDP6ExdsRrc) that was filmed at Hanford Auto Parts and shows how the crankshafts rotate in the cylinder blocks of the 2 "New Engine Kits" that Paul Shinn claimed to be defective. Last edited by Terry Burtz, Calif; 11-30-2022 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Wrong Link Posted |
11-29-2022, 11:40 PM | #33 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
John,
It is good to have some information that we can rely on about the 2 engine kits Paul Shinn purchased. To date, I have completed 9 Burtz engines. The findings in the video are very consistent with what I have experienced with the engines I have put together. Chris W. |
11-30-2022, 09:02 AM | #34 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
That you tube link cuts to a page that says video not available.
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11-30-2022, 09:42 AM | #35 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
China is our enemy
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11-30-2022, 09:43 AM | #36 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
The video was uploaded for use on another forum and was not authorized for wide distribution. It's about a minute long and just shows what John says above: "Both crankshafts rotated freely; #123 has a spot where rotation is slightly snug." That's all.
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11-30-2022, 12:10 PM | #37 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
Sorry about the problem with the link provided for the video that summarizes the results of the remeasured tolerances on the blocks owned by Paul Shinn.
The following link works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDP6ExdsRrc |
11-30-2022, 12:15 PM | #38 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
This is definitely good news. I'm especially happy since I recently purchased the block, head, cam, and flywheel which were just delivered to the builder who is anxious to start work on it.
This debacle has surely cost the Burtz Block people sales and money over the past several months, and I for one am happy that it's finally been cleared up. The question I have is how did Paul Shinn's builder Willie Baechler come up with the measurements that started all of this in the first place? |
11-30-2022, 12:18 PM | #39 | |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
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11-30-2022, 03:54 PM | #40 |
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Re: New Engine QA and Paul Shinn's Concerns
I am confused.
One of the large venders gets a bad reputation, mostly because of problems they created them selves. Other venders get burned, sometimes due to no fault of their own, but due to uninformed end users. If we lose any of the big venders we may lose more than we think. Some of us say we will never buy or use a product from a certain vender. That certain vender may manufacture a part that you buy from another vender but now you are happy because you like and trust the vender you purchased from. If the “bad” vender goes under, it is very possible no one else if going to manufacture the particular parts. We have beat the “bad” vender to death on this and other forums. Now the Burtz engine comes into production after years of design, testing and money spent. It has been road tested, assembled by experts and novices alike. I have heard nothing but praise for the engine except for the crank run out by the reporter. Now the reporter comes along, observes run out on the crank and claims it is unacceptable. The builder and the reporter agree on a third party to investigate. Third party says engine is in spec. Reporter will not respond. Some of the forum contributors want the subject dropped. Will we ever find out from the reporter what really happened? Will we miss the Burtz engine if the builder gets disgusted and quits building the engines? We have beat almost every vender half to death over simple things like replacement grease fittings that would not fit, poorly machined heads and on and on. Don’t you guys want to get to the bottom of this? I do. If the reporter can’t respond maybe he is not a reporter but rather a pot stirrer. |
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