1953 Ford starter issue

[Dbug725]

I'm putting together a slightly modified Ford engine. I'm having trouble with the bendix grinding against the flywheel..in other words, the gear seems to be binding on the ring gear teeth. The starter was rebuilt, but I actually just replaced the 6 volt starter with a second good starter and I got the same result. I'm assuming the worst, since I can't seem to solve the problem Should I assume that the ring gear is not pushed the whole way onto the flywheel? The weird thing is, the ring gear was never replaced as far as I know and the engine started fine before. Yes, I'm running 12 volts to the six volt starter, and no, the starter shafts aren't bent. I've already spent two weeks trying to track down this issue. Maybe a 12 volt starter for the flathead might help? I hate to keep throwing money away when I can't seem to diagnose the problem. Oh, by the way, the stop on the bendix drive shows fresh marks indicating that it is indeed rubbing somewhere when trying to engage. The engine is tight from the rebuild, but can be turned by hand without too much trouble using my 1/2in drive breaker bar. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


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[Newc]

First- I understand that automatic starters have a longer shaft. Second is the flywheel a true 8BA unit? Newc

[51504bat]

Correct starter plate? Modern Bendix or old style? If its the modern enclosed style replace it with a old style. Just bought a USA made one from Joe's Antique Auto. Van Pelts sells a USA made one as well.

[19Fordy]

As has been said, make sure you have the correct matching bell bousing with matching starter plate as they all do not install at the same angle. That creates 'meshing" problems with flywheel.

[Dbug725]

The previous owner assured me that the flywheel is correct and has always been with the engine. The starter has the old style bendix. In fact both starters have the old style drives. I just came in from the garage and noticed that both drives have teeth marks on the starter drive stop The starter mount has always been on this block. I swear if the starter had a thicker mounting plate on the flywheel end this would solve my problem, Is this even possible? Please bear with me....this is my first serious Ford project. I'm building a 1938 Ford half ton pickup with resto-mod changes. This is an honest to goodness old school build . I've spent entire Covid quarantine working on this project. It was meant to keep me sane,,,,but is in fact driving me crazy.

[51504bat]

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Some photos would help.

[jimvette59]

Angled starter plate ?

[RalphG]

Originally Posted by Dbug725

The previous owner assured me that the flywheel is correct and has always been with the engine. The starter has the old style bendix. In fact both starters have the old style drives. I just came in from the garage and noticed that both drives have teeth marks on the starter drive stop The starter mount has always been on this block. I swear if the starter had a thicker mounting plate on the flywheel end this would solve my problem,

Maybe some shims under the starter mount would help? I've never had this problem on a flathead starter but I know on the 70s Oldsmobile starter, the right number of shims make a big difference on how well the starter works

[51 MERC-CT]

Don't think that any shim to move the starter away from the mount plate is the answer.

[JSeery]

This is not a common problem, so one would have to assume something is not correct. You have tried several starters, so that is most likely not the problem. The original seller can claim about anything, but sounds like it is time to check out what you actually have part by part and ID where the problem is. If it was me, I would start with the flywheel and verify it is the correct one and that the ring gear is seated properly.

[tubman]

In this vein, I'm betting on a mismatch between the starter place and bell housing. In the past, people were notorious for not keeping track of the proper pairs, which during the 8BA era, is very important.

[19Fordy]

I'm betting on Mr. Tubman. The starter plate angle match with the bell housing is the key.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Once again, don't overlook the differences between the early (through 1948) and late (8BA types...1949-'53) FLYWHEELS. As can be seen in the picture, the ring gears sit at different locations fore/aft, which definitely affords a different relationship with starter drive.

If you'll look closely, the LATE flywheels have the six clutch-attach bolt holes drilled completely through the flywheel, whereas the EARLY wheels have six BLIND holes....NOT drilled all the way through the wheel. Also note the difference in width (circumferentially) of the two different ring gears. Obviously, the LATE flywheel is on RIGHT in picture! DD

[Dbug725]

Originally Posted by tubman

In this vein, I'm betting on a mismatch between the starter place and bell housing. In the past, people were notorious for not keeping track of the proper pairs, which during the 8BA era, is very important.

I believe that your answer about wrong starter mounting plate is right on. It appears that the starter is angled nose downward. How do I go about finding the correct one? As I've stated this is my first flathead project ever. All my old flathead buddies claim that they have never seen a separate mounting plate that looks like mine. I suspect that this is because they all remember pre 1948 flatheads. What bothers me most, is I can't find a part number on my plate. How many types and angles am I faced with? Seems like I might have to buy several to get the right one? This is an 8ba engine with the correct flywheel. Where do I even start looking since the rebuilt engine is already installed? Thanks for your help

[Dbug725]

I'd love to send photos, but until I get one of my grandchildren to help me do this it just won't happen. I've narrowed the problem down to the fact that the starter is indeed nose downward since the mounting plate is wider at that the bottom than the top. I didn't notice this until you forum guys told me what to look for. I wonder how many different angles were used by Ford? This was a running 8ba engine that was sent to a shop to be bored out and rebuilt and it came back this way and never started in the past 8 years. No one to ask how this happened, and the guy I bought it from had no idea something was changed.

[Bob C]

This link may help. https://web.archive.org/web/20160318...ellhousing.pdf

[tubman]

Complicated, ain't it. A few years ago, I had a stamped steel Merc bell housing without a starter plate. A couple of weeks watching eBay and "Parts for Sale" ads on here and the "H.A.M.B" and I found what I needed. I paid more for the starter plate than I did for the bellhousing, which is to be expected. For some reason, people back then would save the bell housings but chuck the starter plates.

[Dbug725]

Great information....thanks so much for the link. Looks like I have a steel bell housing with an angled starter mount. Now all I have to do, is find the right one!!!!!

[Newc]

I gotta buy printer paper. Newc

[r_reed]

the angle starting plate is the easiest one to find.