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Old 08-17-2017, 10:17 AM   #1
wingski
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Default door alignment

When I bought my '29 cabriolet, I noticed that the doors didn't shut correctly, especially the driver's door. I knew that it was body shims that are added or subtracted to correct the opening at the top of the door on an open top car, but the bottom of the doors stuck out from the body about an inch. I understand that this alignment has to made by widening the bottom of the body. Does anyone know how to do this safely? Now is the time for me to do it, but I don't want to crack, break, or bend something that I can't fix.
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Old 08-17-2017, 10:24 AM   #2
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: door alignment

Very unlikely that the bottom of the body is wrong. More likely to be the top needs to be pulled together, or the door is twisted. BTW, the bottoms of my 29 Tudor also stick out a little, which I think is normal.
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:41 AM   #3
Bill G
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Default Re: door alignment

I just grabbed the top of the door with my hands and pushed with my sock-covered toe (shoe off) against the bottom and it seemed to line it right up.
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: door alignment

As Tom indicated, it is the body not the door that is causing the problem. Top of the body has spread from people pulling themselves into the car over the last 85 years. Slowly tweak the body back into alignment using a ratchet strap.
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: door alignment

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Originally Posted by Dollar Bill View Post
As Tom indicated, it is the body not the door that is causing the problem. Top of the body has spread from people pulling themselves into the car over the last 85 years. Slowly tweak the body back into alignment using a ratchet strap.
You guys are saving me so much work, time, and making mistakes. Thank you for the great advice about the ratchet strap.
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Old 08-17-2017, 04:39 PM   #6
john charlton
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Default Re: door alignment

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The cabriolet body is a wood framed body so you need to take care before you undertake anything drastic . The body sits on wood sub rails, the all steel cowl sits on these . The doors and quarter panels are wood framed, the lower edge of the quarter panels are nailed to the underside of the subrails . There is a steel rod adjustable turnbuckle on the inside of the quarter panels these are attached to the quarter panel top rail and bolted to the wood subrail . In pulling the body in by a ratchet strap could damage the turnbuckle attachments so before doing this take the inside trim off to see whats going on .Maybe adjusting the turnbuckle could pull the body in slightly . My cabriolet had the same problem which turned out to be a bent frame so it was a body off job to fix it . I would get a body man in for advice . Steel bodies like tudors,steel doors, etc etc respond well to bending and twisting but wood framed bodies and doors do not IMHO

John in no weather today Suffolk County England .

Last edited by john charlton; 08-17-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 08-17-2017, 05:36 PM   #7
figment
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Default Re: door alignment

On my Cabriolet there is a metal strap that runs from the front of the door to the rear bottom of the door. The door can be pulled in some by removing the screws and push the bottom of the door in and reinstall the screws in the new position. This metal strap runs at a angle. You will have to remove the interior door trim to do this job. You should have a second set of hands to get the screws in the right position to hold the bottom of the door in . My door does have a wide piece of wood along the bottom. I would try and see if this works berore moving the quarter panels.
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Old 08-17-2017, 07:39 PM   #8
glenn in camino
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Default Re: door alignment

If you shim just in back of the cowl, the front of the cowl will pull down thereby raising the rear of the cowl , the hinges and the rears of the doors.
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: door alignment

john and figment are booth correct. the Cabriolet bodies and doors are wood framed there is a strap on the inside of the door and a turn buckle behind the door post. you can adjust the door bottom in or out with the strap and the top of the door post in or out a little bit with the turn buckle. DO NOT try to pull the door post with a ratchet strap it will not stay. the question is when the window and the top is up how does the window line up with the upper part of the folding post.
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: door alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by john charlton View Post
The cabriolet body is a wood framed body so you need to take care before you undertake anything drastic . The body sits on wood sub rails, the all steel cowl sits on these . The doors and quarter panels are wood framed, the lower edge of the quarter panels are nailed to the underside of the subrails . There is a steel rod adjustable turnbuckle on the inside of the quarter panels these are attached to the quarter panel top rail and bolted to the wood subrail . In pulling the body in by a ratchet strap could damage the turnbuckle attachments so before doing this take the inside trim off to see whats going on .Maybe adjusting the turnbuckle could pull the body in slightly . My cabriolet had the same problem which turned out to be a bent frame so it was a body off job to fix it . I would get a body man in for advice . Steel bodies like tudors,steel doors, etc etc respond well to bending and twisting but wood framed bodies and doors do not IMHO

John in no weather today Suffolk County England .
John, I'll gladly send you some of our 100 plus weather. We've had at least three weeks of it and it's getting old. Explain more about these turnbuckles.
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Old 08-18-2017, 03:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: door alignment

This is why I bought a model A. Wood, turnbuckles, Robertson screws, brake rods instead of lines, and dozens of other goodies that make an A an A. I am going make a complaint though. Today I had to buy a new grease gun because when I went to the gas station to get my grease gun that is older than I am recharged with graphite grease, they told me they don't use it anymore. I had to buy a new gun at napa and grease cartridge. Wonderful grease gun, but it cost $10 more that what I paid for my first A. At least I was still able to buy graphite grease.
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Old 08-18-2017, 10:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: door alignment

Hey John, I checked out where Suffolk County is and wondered. Do you have to be concerned with salt air affecting your vehicles? You are exactly 10 degress north of where we live, and even though we are only 30 miles from the Pacific Ocean we get no salt air. Our humidity averages about 17% in the summer, so I really don't even have to worry about moist air until winter.
I want to share something with you. For years, I've been limited by the heat of summer to when I can work in my uninsulated garage. A month ago, I realized that a ceiling fan would make a big difference out there, so for $60 I installed one with a remote by the door. What a difference. The fan is a ceiling hugger with a light and it can be 110 plus and I can work out there with a wet sweat band and a wet towel around my neck. I thought I'd share this with you, not because of heat, but dealing with condensation in winter. I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to have to deal with damp metal parts nearly as much as I did without a fan. The only thing to be concerned about is clearance. I have my cabriolet up on a flatbed trailer now while working on it, and have to watch where I position the car because of the fan. I've got the A parked with the engine right under the fan and it is such an improvement over no fan. I've never seen nor heard of a ceiling fan in someone's garage, so maybe I'm a first.
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Old 08-18-2017, 11:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: door alignment

Hi Wingski . Yes I live only a few miles from the North Sea I can see it from my bedroom window . The most Easterly part of England is about 5 miles up the coast from me . Our humidity is up in the eighties year round so condensation is sometimes a problem.No worries about salt air as the prevailing wind is Westerly .We never really get hot enough to warrant a ceiling fan !!! .I spend the fall and spring in sunny Chandler AZ ,my son and I work outside on our USA model As so dont need a fan there either ,right now half way through a late 30 CCPU .
Before you proceed further you need to check what the root cause of your poor door fit is . I doubt if the body has spread that much ,the body width is held by the steel parcel shelf behind the back seat . I am assuming that your body wood is in good condition ,if you have sill/subframe rot then that is a different ball game . I have checked my cabriolets body width ,I have perfect door fit . I have 51 3/4" measured between the outer edges of the halfround moulding which runs up the body side then onto the door passing under the door handle .It is more or less in line with the body door lock striker plate ( the one with the two steps on) This width is measured across the body .I think the problem is in the doors,the wood frame is most likely warped pulling the door out of true as the other posts suggest take the door card off and investigate could be the screws in the strap have come loose .The turnbuckles are adjustable and are there to stiffen the quarter panels,they should not be loose . They are two steel rods with the buckle in the middle one rod is threaded right hand the other left hand so you can adjust length/ tension .Take the trunk trim off and you will see the turnbuckles .Keep us advised of your progress !!!

John in sunny spells remains of hurricane "Gert" on the way more heavy rain Suffolk County England .

Last edited by john charlton; 08-18-2017 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:04 AM   #14
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Default Re: door alignment

Right now nothing lines up. The driver's door won't close. I'm slowly tightening the cowl bolts to bring down the front and have the door panel off to work on that strap. I'll let you guys know what happens. Fun, fun, fun!
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Old 08-19-2017, 02:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: door alignment

Thanks John, your advice and explanations are a great help.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: door alignment

I replaced all the wood in my '29 cabriolet and realigned it all about 3 years ago. It takes time and patience. First, make sure the wood is all good, replace it as needed. The gaps at the back of the cowl/ front of the door need to be even before attempting to shim up the body. ...and the hinge pins need to line up to keep the door from warping each time you open or close it. When aligning the body, all bolts need to be fully tightened each time in order to determine where shims are needed, and the frame must be level. I pulled the body 9 times to get the alignment correct on mine, starting with thicker rubber and webbing shims and finally using crocus cloth on the final adjustments. It is generally recommended to do the alignment from the front going back. I skipped doing the hood first as I had Rootleib fit a new hood for me.

Do all the fitting before you paint to avoid paint damage. I did not final bolt down the diagonal door strap until after paint and reassembly. I used C clamps temporarily to pull the door into place.

I created a simple spreadsheet for each bolt and shim to review progress, and to have a record of shims needed for final assembly.
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:25 AM   #17
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Default Re: door alignment

Russ, I’m having a problem aligning the driver’s side door. I’ve shimmed at the mid-body location at the back of the door and tightened the bolt. I’ve tightened the cowl bolts and now I have a door that still not closing, but is also not lined up. The back of the door is lower than the body by an inch, and I can’t figure out how to raise it without doing some major damage somewhere. Any and all ideas are welcome. Thanks!
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:07 AM   #18
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Default Re: door alignment

if the frame has sagged its gonna be very tricky to get everything to align....
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:10 AM   #19
wingski
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Default Re: door alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn in camino View Post
If you shim just in back of the cowl, the front of the cowl will pull down thereby raising the rear of the cowl , the hinges and the rears of the doors.
Glenn, thanks. What is the name for the model A in the picture. Is it an estate wagon?
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:44 PM   #20
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Default Re: door alignment

Wingski,have you read marcos door align guide. It is for a roadster but I imagine much would apply to a cabriolet. Also covers Four door if I remember.

http://abarnyard.com/workshop/door-2.htm

John

Last edited by john in illinois; 08-25-2017 at 03:17 PM.
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