The Ford Barn

Alaska Mike · 03-23-2023, 05:35 PM

Drove my '31 Model A roadster from storage shed, 50 yards, to the shop. Started and ran fine. Tried to start a couple days later and would not start. It has a modern points and condenser set up. I put three new condensers in it before it would run on a four cylinders. I am fed up with this stuff!

I have two distributors, one as a back up. I ordered the stuff to return one of them back to original points and condenser.

I had ordered the Petronix electronic ignition, and was going to put it in one of the distributors, but they sent me one for a Ford Tractor. It will not work. Called Petronix, and they agreed that it was the wrong one. They were not sure what they had that would fit. Their information says a Mallory distributor would take their model ML-141CCP6.

Do I have a Mallory distributor? It is a stock Model A distributor.

I know there is a lot of discussion about electronic ignition, modern points, and original points. Does anyone know which Petronix kit I need? Am I crazy to keep one distributor with modern points, and one with original point set up? I am just getting tired of working on this thing on the side of the road.

40-A Twins · 03-23-2023, 06:59 PM

I installed the Nu-Rex upper plate and the car died down the street and had to be pushed home by neighbors. I suspected it was the cheap condenser that came with the upper plate, so bought a NOS FoMoCo condenser on e-bay. Nu-Rex is supposed to use 1957-1974 Ford points and condenser, but the condenser was slightly longer and would not fit. I had to move the mounting screw hole and slot the tab enough to fit it into the distributer. The points have also been trimmed slightly to fit.

nkaminar · 03-23-2023, 07:02 PM

My car came with a spare distributor, all set up and timed to the engine. In case of a failure all I had to do was to drop it in.

I have had good luck with Blue Streak points and condenser in my distributor that is set up to use the modern points and condenser. Although a person on the forum was complaining that the new components from Blue Streak were not as good as they used to be. I found some new-in-box points and condenser at a sale.

I have NOT had good luck with electronic ignition. I cannot help you there.

My first Model A, bought in the 1960's, had original Ford points and condenser. They were still in the car 10 years and thousands of miles later when I sold the car.

Ordsgt · 03-23-2023, 08:08 PM

I installed FSI unit 6V pos ground. 6000 trouble free miles
FS Ignitions
220 N 1st St
Ponca City, Oklahoma 74601
(580) 762-8322

ndnchf · 03-23-2023, 08:37 PM

My first distributor had a nurex upper plate with modern points and condenser. I refreshed it with the supposed higher quality blue streak points and condenser. That condenser lasted 4 days before it crapped out. I rebuilt another distrinbutor with original points and burnout proof condenser. It has been running flawlessly. I won't trust the new, low quality modern condensers.

Kurt in NJ · 03-23-2023, 10:54 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Original points that came with the car over 50 years ago , A&L condenser ,lower plate wire from Chevy dist I found behind gas station when I was 12 .
Other than cleaning lubricating and adjusting points it’s been 40 years of trouble free service (until I got the A&L condenser I changed a lot of them in the first 10 years)

The modern point setup is for people with nothing to do but go from NAPA to NAPA and work on their car.

Synchro909 · 03-24-2023, 07:09 AM

IMO, points are points. It is the condenser that is most likely to give trouble. I have eased (but not completely cured the problem by moving the condenser away from the heat and up onto the firewall near the coil. The older the condenser you have, the better so long as it is working. The Chinese know how to make them but the vendors buy crappy stuff and sell it on to us. I believe the Chinese can make good stuff and that the problem is with us. We accept rubbish, complain about it and then buy more!
There is nothing wrong with the original setup except maybe that wire.

chrs1961815 · 03-24-2023, 07:45 AM

When rebuilding distributors I fix the wire problem by using something like this:
Abrasion-Resistant Wire, with Silicone Insulation, 16 Wire Gauge
https://www.mcmaster.com/7479K22

AL in NY · 03-24-2023, 09:36 AM

I agree with post#4, an FSI electronic ignition module that replaces your points and condenser is the best trouble-free solution to your problem. I've had mine installed for 12 years and have 25,000 miles on it with no issues. If installed correctly, (distributor plate grounded back to the battery directly) it's totally trouble-free. I haven't had to adjust my timing in 12 years and the car never fails to start.

katy · 03-24-2023, 10:45 AM

FWIW, a few months ago there was a thread about condensers (capacitors) and Robert/Texas suggested a $20 capacitor tester (on Amazon).

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ight=Capacitor

ndnchf · 03-24-2023, 11:09 AM

Those $20 capacitor testers on Amazon are handy, I have one myself. But even better is an old school coil and condenser tester like my Herbrand tester from the 1940s-1950s. It not only tests coils for live spark, but can also test condensers under load. I made this short video demonstrating it. The Herbrand tester has a known good internal condenser for testing coils. When it is switched to the "Cond" position, it routes the circuit to the external condenser under test. In the video, I first show the coil firing with the good, internal condenser. Then switch to the bad external condenser and you can see what happens.

FWIW - I believe the A&L burnout proof condensers are the most reliable condensers currently available, better than the modern V8 condensers too. Thats why I use them and original points.

https://youtu.be/7thA6UA5kbk

Alaska Mike · 04-02-2023, 05:47 PM

I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment on their experiences. Last two "new" condensers made one trip around the block. I ordered two NOS Ford condensers off of E-bay, and installed one, but haven't really had a chance to try it out.

I also got all the stuff rounded up to set up another distributor back to all original, and am anxious to try it also.

Electronic ignition is still an option for me, but I will see how these two go.

Thanks again for sharing!

ChicagoBob · 04-02-2023, 06:23 PM

I, too have had good luck with electronic systems, both FSI and Petronix. I find that it is difficult to get good quality points and condensers these days. I've had the same problem with vintage motorcycles.

If you can fin NOS Ford parts, you will have little trouble. Barring that, I'd say electronic is the best alternative.

Fullraceflathead · 04-02-2023, 07:04 PM

The burnout proof condenser is as good as it gets!!! $10.00

verdirick · 04-03-2023, 01:41 AM

FYI gang. Here is the resolution to the condenser problem. If you can find them, look for Filco 75U points that use a capacitor in place of a condenser. Kicker is that they are obsolete. I was able to locate 1/2 dozen on ebay a few years ago..haven't looked recently, but in my case solved the condenser problem. Surprised that no one have explored reproducing points with a capacitor.

alexiskai · 04-03-2023, 06:22 AM

I can’t find any reference to Filco/Philco “75u” points. Can you add a picture?

nkaminar · 04-03-2023, 06:47 AM

A condenser is a capacitor. The ones used on our cars are rolled up foil with insulating paper in between. Maybe the ones Yerdirick was talking about are the electronic capacitors that are built using semiconductor components. I too would like to see a photo or link.

mcgarrett · 04-03-2023, 07:55 AM

No Filko 75U points came up in my search, but I did find this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16333829628...615b5bf4ea1b8e

ndnchf · 04-03-2023, 08:22 AM

There are quite a few options out there. Just my opinion, but the simplest and perhaps most reliable is original style points and the A&L burnout proof condenser. Check the points adjustment every once in a while, (a 10 minute job) and drive the wheels off it. For most people, both will likely outlast the driver. For extra peace of mind, keep a spare of each in your onboard spare kit.

I think we sometimes imagine all kinds of calamities can occur and go out and buy the latest so-called upgrade to ease our fears. We make things harder than we need to.

alexiskai · 04-03-2023, 10:52 AM

One issue I've seen a couple times with the Nu-Rex upper plate, which is often found with the modern points/condenser, is that the condenser is held in place by a single screw. If this loosens due to vibration, the condenser can swing toward the center of the plate and into the path of the cam, which will proceed to erode a small arc into the condenser shell until you notice. The primary effect of this is usually to scrub the lube off the cam, which then leads to premature rubbing block wear.

I just saw this yesterday on a Tudor a friend had bought. We were able to save the condenser and the cam but had to reset the point gap.

03-23-2023, 05:35 PM	#1
Alaska Mike Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Centerville, Iowa Posts: 91	Looking for options on modern points and condenser Drove my '31 Model A roadster from storage shed, 50 yards, to the shop. Started and ran fine. Tried to start a couple days later and would not start. It has a modern points and condenser set up. I put three new condensers in it before it would run on a four cylinders. I am fed up with this stuff! I have two distributors, one as a back up. I ordered the stuff to return one of them back to original points and condenser. I had ordered the Petronix electronic ignition, and was going to put it in one of the distributors, but they sent me one for a Ford Tractor. It will not work. Called Petronix, and they agreed that it was the wrong one. They were not sure what they had that would fit. Their information says a Mallory distributor would take their model ML-141CCP6. Do I have a Mallory distributor? It is a stock Model A distributor. I know there is a lot of discussion about electronic ignition, modern points, and original points. Does anyone know which Petronix kit I need? Am I crazy to keep one distributor with modern points, and one with original point set up? I am just getting tired of working on this thing on the side of the road.

03-23-2023, 07:02 PM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser My car came with a spare distributor, all set up and timed to the engine. In case of a failure all I had to do was to drop it in. I have had good luck with Blue Streak points and condenser in my distributor that is set up to use the modern points and condenser. Although a person on the forum was complaining that the new components from Blue Streak were not as good as they used to be. I found some new-in-box points and condenser at a sale. I have NOT had good luck with electronic ignition. I cannot help you there. My first Model A, bought in the 1960's, had original Ford points and condenser. They were still in the car 10 years and thousands of miles later when I sold the car. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 03-23-2023 at 07:20 PM.

03-23-2023, 08:37 PM	#5
ndnchf Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia Posts: 765	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser My first distributor had a nurex upper plate with modern points and condenser. I refreshed it with the supposed higher quality blue streak points and condenser. That condenser lasted 4 days before it crapped out. I rebuilt another distrinbutor with original points and burnout proof condenser. It has been running flawlessly. I won't trust the new, low quality modern condensers.

03-23-2023, 10:54 PM	#6
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Original points that came with the car over 50 years ago , A&L condenser ,lower plate wire from Chevy dist I found behind gas station when I was 12 . Other than cleaning lubricating and adjusting points it’s been 40 years of trouble free service (until I got the A&L condenser I changed a lot of them in the first 10 years) The modern point setup is for people with nothing to do but go from NAPA to NAPA and work on their car.

03-24-2023, 07:09 AM	#7
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser IMO, points are points. It is the condenser that is most likely to give trouble. I have eased (but not completely cured the problem by moving the condenser away from the heat and up onto the firewall near the coil. The older the condenser you have, the better so long as it is working. The Chinese know how to make them but the vendors buy crappy stuff and sell it on to us. I believe the Chinese can make good stuff and that the problem is with us. We accept rubbish, complain about it and then buy more! There is nothing wrong with the original setup except maybe *that* wire. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

03-23-2023, 08:08 PM	#4
Ordsgt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Yorktown Virginia Posts: 182	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser I installed FSI unit 6V pos ground. 6000 trouble free miles FS Ignitions 220 N 1st St Ponca City, Oklahoma 74601 (580) 762-8322

03-24-2023, 07:45 AM	#8
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser When rebuilding distributors I fix the wire problem by using something like this: Abrasion-Resistant Wire, with Silicone Insulation, 16 Wire Gauge https://www.mcmaster.com/7479K22 __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

03-24-2023, 09:36 AM	#9
AL in NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Upstate New York Posts: 1,160	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser I agree with post#4, an FSI electronic ignition module that replaces your points and condenser is the best trouble-free solution to your problem. I've had mine installed for 12 years and have 25,000 miles on it with no issues. If installed correctly, (distributor plate grounded back to the battery directly) it's totally trouble-free. I haven't had to adjust my timing in 12 years and the car never fails to start. __________________ AL in NY

03-24-2023, 10:45 AM	#10
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser FWIW, a few months ago there was a thread about condensers (capacitors) and Robert/Texas suggested a $20 capacitor tester (on Amazon). https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ight=Capacitor __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

04-02-2023, 05:47 PM	#12
Alaska Mike Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Centerville, Iowa Posts: 91	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment on their experiences. Last two "new" condensers made one trip around the block. I ordered two NOS Ford condensers off of E-bay, and installed one, but haven't really had a chance to try it out. I also got all the stuff rounded up to set up another distributor back to all original, and am anxious to try it also. Electronic ignition is still an option for me, but I will see how these two go. Thanks again for sharing!

04-02-2023, 06:23 PM	#13
ChicagoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yorkville, IL Posts: 126	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser I, too have had good luck with electronic systems, both FSI and Petronix. I find that it is difficult to get good quality points and condensers these days. I've had the same problem with vintage motorcycles. If you can fin NOS Ford parts, you will have little trouble. Barring that, I'd say electronic is the best alternative.

04-02-2023, 07:04 PM	#14
Fullraceflathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chillicothe, Missouri Posts: 1,176	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser The burnout proof condenser is as good as it gets!!! $10.00 __________________ "If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford "Primitive technology is not a design flaw" 1928 Ford Model A Roadster Pickup 1930 Gordon Smith Air Compressor 1941 Willy's Pickup 1960 Thunderbird-For Sale 1964 Buick Riviera 2x4 425 1965 Pontiac GTO, 455 Super Duty 2004 Dodge Ram SRT-10, V-10 Viper 1977 Charger Jet Boat,460 Ford,Jacuzzi Jet Front Engine Nostalgia Dragster,Supercharged 296 "Fullrace Flathead" Ford Engine Build up on DVD ask

04-03-2023, 01:41 AM	#15
verdirick Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Verdi, Nevada Posts: 166	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser FYI gang. Here is the resolution to the condenser problem. If you can find them, look for Filco 75U points that use a capacitor in place of a condenser. Kicker is that they are obsolete. I was able to locate 1/2 dozen on ebay a few years ago..haven't looked recently, but in my case solved the condenser problem. Surprised that no one have explored reproducing points with a capacitor.

04-03-2023, 06:22 AM	#16
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,356	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser I can’t find any reference to Filco/Philco “75u” points. Can you add a picture?

04-03-2023, 06:47 AM	#17
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser A condenser is a capacitor. The ones used on our cars are rolled up foil with insulating paper in between. Maybe the ones Yerdirick was talking about are the electronic capacitors that are built using semiconductor components. I too would like to see a photo or link. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

04-03-2023, 07:55 AM	#18
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser No Filko 75U points came up in my search, but I did find this... https://www.ebay.com/itm/16333829628...615b5bf4ea1b8e

04-03-2023, 10:52 AM	#20
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,356	Re: Looking for options on modern points and condenser One issue I've seen a couple times with the Nu-Rex upper plate, which is often found with the modern points/condenser, is that the condenser is held in place by a single screw. If this loosens due to vibration, the condenser can swing toward the center of the plate and into the path of the cam, which will proceed to erode a small arc into the condenser shell until you notice. The primary effect of this is usually to scrub the lube off the cam, which then leads to premature rubbing block wear. I just saw this yesterday on a Tudor a friend had bought. We were able to save the condenser and the cam but had to reset the point gap.