1941 super deluxe production number

[41?]

I just bought a 41 super deluxe. The number stamped on the frame is 99 A
I 354387. Any idea what is going on? I need to get a title. It is an I not a 1 between the A and 3. Appreciate any help.

[JSeery]

Are you aware of all the information available at VanPelts site? http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ialnumbers.htm

Looks like a 41 Mercury serial number to me, but I'm no expert, just reading the chart.

[corvette8n]

It would help us to know your location, for instance NY doesn’t issue titles for any vehicle before 1973. 99A does look like a Mercury#. I once looked at a car from another state that had a cutout from another frame obviously brazed on the frame rail. Needless to say I passed on that car.

[meric42]

Deleted

[JSeery]

Looks like 41 to me, 41 is 99A 257,101 to 99A 466,700.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by 41?

I just bought a 41 super deluxe. The number stamped on the frame is 99 A
I 354387. Any idea what is going on? I need to get a title. It is an I not a 1 between the A and 3. Appreciate any help.

Just so that you fully understand, Ford intentionally used an "I" instead of "1" in the stamped serial numbers. It SHOULD read: 99A-I354387 . The 1941 sequences run as:

99A-650,280 thru 99A-I,4I2,709

Welcome to the 'Barn! DD

[JSeery]

V8, so is the information posted on VanPelts site incorrect? I have not idea on these years, I was just going on what was in the charts there.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

V8, so is the information posted on VanPelts site incorrect? I have not idea on these years, I was just going on what was in the charts there.

I believe his site shows correct info with regard to these number groups by year, except that his later numbers, including 1941 serials, show a figure "1", for which I took it upon myself to substitute the actual change to the letter "I" in lieu of a figure "1". I BELIEVE the actual change took place sometime in '38. Is that what you were referencing, J? DD

[JSeery]

No, the serial number range for 41 Merc's.

[41?]

I live in Wisconsin. The frame shows no signs of being changed.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

No, the serial number range for 41 Merc's.

DUHHHH.............! I'm a little slow sometimes. Now I see, and you're correct. That is a '41 Merc number. And there is a four inch difference in wheelbase lengths between Ford and Merc. Hmmm!

So, Mr. 41 ? ......what makes you think you have a Ford? Sure it ain't a Merc? Do you have any pictures? If you have pics but don't know how to post them here, are you capable of e-mailing some pics to either myself or JSeery? We can likely post them for you. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

No, the serial number range for 41 Merc's.

Ya know, these cars were "given" their serial numbers when an "already-numbered" engine/trans assembly was dropped into the chassis at the assembly plant. I suppose it's humanly POSSIBLE that a Mercury unit was shipped out to an assembly plant in error, or maybe during time of shortage of available engine/trans units. I've seen more than one "weird", human error, documented serial number 'mistake' on early Corvettes, and have read about several more. Stuff happens sometimes! DD

[42fred]

The 1941 Ford could have a Mercury engine as the Mercury engine was an approved option in 1941. If the Mercury engine was installed at the factory into a Ford vehicle the Mercury serial number would have been stamped into the frame rail.

[41?]

It is a ford, it has the 3 piece grille and says ford in the middle of the grille.

[JSeery]

May be what 42fred posted.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

May be what 42fred posted.

Gotta be, 'cuz the frame number always originates with what is stamped on the trans/(engine) combination. DD

[41?]

Sounds good to me. I'm going to try to register it and see what the DMV says. Thanks guys.

[McMimmcs]

[/B]

Originally Posted by 41?

Sounds good to me. I'm going to try to register it and see what the DMV says. Thanks guys.

What about a picture ?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 41?

Sounds good to me. I'm going to try to register it and see what the DMV says. Thanks guys.

FWIW, just a little bit of advice if you care to listen. I would go in there with a positive attitude. Present any necessary paperwork in a polite, yet authoritative manner, with an attitude of complete confidence. Say NO MORE than is absolutely necessary, although remain cordial and polite. ABSOLUTELY, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES, do you volunteer or mention anything about this serial number being an oddball, or anything to warrant exceptional scrutiny. IF (and it is entirely possible) the subject comes-up from the 'friendly and efficient DMV person' that the serial number on your frame either does not match acceptable '41 Ford numbers (they have lists now-a-days just like we do), with a confident face and manner, authoritatively mention that this car came equipped with the Ford-approved, optional Mercury engine.

Just so that YOU understand the Ford/Mercury engine production process, as I said before....when Ford assembled a new engine back then, it was mated to a transmission which was common to both Fords and Mercurys...SAME transmission! At that time, a serial number from an allotted sequence was stamped on that top, blank pad on the transmission's clutch housing....see picture below! If it was the 90 HP Ford engine, the transmission was stamped with a "Ford" serial number. If it was a 95 HP Mercury engine, the trans pad was stamped with a "Mercury" serial number.




These engine/trans assemblies usually went into short-term stockpiles awaiting shipment to an automobile assembly plant. After arrival at assembly plant and installation into a chassis, that number stamped into the trans pad was hand-stamped into the passenger car chassis in three locations on the driver side frame rail, becoming the car's official serial number. The stock Ford engine in '41 was 221 cu. in. and was rated at 90 HP. The "OPTIONAL" Mercury engine was 239 cu. in. and was rated at 95 HP. The important info here is that cars were initially "serial-numbered" by the serial number originally stamped into the trans pad. Mercs had their own dedicated numbering sequence. Have this info fully-understood in your head so that you can rattle it off to the DMV clerk with authority! Good luck, and report back!

IF your car happens to have the original transmission in it (with that "99A-" serial number stamped into it), I would take a picture of that with you to help back-up your documentation. DD




........

[41?]

Thanks for the info. I have the hood and fenders off so a picture won't help. It doesn't have the original engine or trans. It had a late model Ford engine and trans which I removed. The serial number had both stars and looks to have been hand stamped so I agree that the Merc engine would make sense.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 41?

Thanks for the info. I have the hood and fenders off so a picture won't help. It doesn't have the original engine or trans. It had a late model Ford engine and trans which I removed. The serial number had both stars and looks to have been hand stamped so I agree that the Merc engine would make sense.

Just try to appear nonchalant when you walk-in and present your case. Above all, DO NOT bring attention to the fact that this is an "oddball" deal. You're not doing anything illegal, but "oddball" situations CAN become very 'messy' in a hurry if you happen-upon the WRONG, "helpful, expert, friendly and know-it-all" DMV critter. Where are you trying (which state) to register this car? DD

[corvette8n]

Originally Posted by 41?

I live in Wisconsin. The frame shows no signs of being changed.

He said Wisconsin.

[rotorwrench]

There seems to be some things here that could be inconsistent with actual number use in that time frame. The "99" engines were an option for 1940 cars on special order but not so much for 1941 or 42 due to the war build up. While I never say never, it could be that the Ford was "specially produced" with the "99" prefix but it could also be a frame change due to a crusty rusty frame unless the original transmission stamping matches the frame stamping. The frame difference was only 4 inches between Ford and Mercury in 1941 and they are very similar. We have had discussions about the torque tube lengths and the way the front radius rod ball was mounted for the Mercury cars. This doesn't answer the number discrepancy though. The other possibility is that it has a post war Ford car frame. The numbers seem to indicate that the serial number is from the 1946 model year. They broke the 1 million number with the 99A prefix that year.

The 221 V8 was always 85 horse power but the numbers were loosely played with after the war. The G series 6-cylinder was new for 1941 and was 90 horse power. The 239 started out at 95 horse power in 1939 but evolved to 100 horse power after the war. You can find this in the prewar parts catalogs. After the war and up through the green bible final edition of 1950 or so was when the numbers changed. They referred to all the 239 CID engines as 100 HP in that publication. The 59 series 239 engines were the 100-HP version but they had some differences from the prewar engines that gave them the new rating designation.

[41?]

I got the title!!! I had to mail the info in. The DMV said I had to register ir as a 46 so I did. Had to have a surety bond.($100) But I do have a title and hobbyist plates.

[tubman]

There seems to be something going here on that I don't understand. '41's and '46's are very different cars and I don't see how this could happen.

I wish you good will, but I'd keep my eyes open.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by tubman

There seems to be something going here on that I don't understand. '41's and '46's are very different cars and I don't see how this could happen.

Well......they ain't THAT different. In fact, looking from the angle depicted in these two shots below, they're pretty damned similar. Front ends are certainly different. Now I don't know if the front clip can be swapped on these two rigs, but if so, we may just have the answer. His numbering definitely falls within the late '46 model numbering sequence. Do you possibly have pictures of the front fenders/grill on this car? If so and you can't post them, you can e-mail the pic(s) to me at e-mail below, and I will post for you. You must'a kept your cool and done GOOD at DMV!!

One more way of telling for sure. See the last two pictures at bottom of this post! DD


[email protected]


'41




'46


__________________________________________________ _____

1941 Dash




1946 Dash

[jimvette59]

V8COOPMAN isn't the H on the transmission you posted from A LZ ?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

V8COOPMAN isn't the H on the transmission you posted from A LZ ?

I would say YES....from a late '36 Lincoln Zep! DD