model b in a model a

[32forddump]

I installed a model b engine in a 28 roadster. The only problem I'm having is the cooling system. When I rev up the engine the water pump raises the water level in the radiator and the water runs out the over flow tube. . I tried putting a galvanized nail in the over flow tube, but the water still runs out. Im thinking of tapping a dowel in the tube to keep the water in the radiator. Any ideas?

[emf]

Are you running a model b pump also? They pump more water than an A pump. You can try putting a large washer in the upper hose to restrict the flow of water, or you can use an A head with and A pump. This, of course, assumes the radiator was good before you changed the engine...

Frank

[Tom Wesenberg]

If you plug the overflow pipe, where do you think the pressure and coolant will go?

My guess would be out a burst seam.

Do as Frank said, or even a thermostat should slow the flow. Hope you don't have plugged up radiator tubes.

[msmaron]

Allow the radiator to seek its own level.//

[J Franklin]

I added a short length of rubber hose to the overflow pipe to raise the usable extra water. Your car will stop overflowing if you stop adding water after it does overflow.

[jfreddie]

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I have a B pump in my '29 Tudor and found the same issue. Pumps a lot of water!
I put in a 160 deg thermostat and that cured the problem. The water level settled in about 2" down from the top of the tank.
The rad was doing well before I made the change to the B pump, however.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

I added a short length of rubber hose to the overflow pipe to raise the usable extra water. Your car will stop overflowing if you stop adding water after it does overflow.

Good idea to raise the overflow tube.

Also if you move that rubber hose opening to the rear of the filler spout and put it UNDER the lip at the top of filler tube the chances of water going down the overflow tube are much less.

This was covered more than 80 years ago in The Ford Service Bulletins, page 450.

The bulletin suggests bending the overflow tube ... the rubber hose idea makes it less likely that the copper tube gets kinked or broken loose where it passes through the bottom of the top tank.

[32forddump]

I have a brand new radiator, How do you install the thermostat with the model b pump? I will add the rubber hose to the top of the over flow tube. I tried not adding water to the radiator but eventually steam came out the over flow tube.

[Ian in Mississauga]

I had the same problem with a model B head (3bolt water pump). The water level slowly kept going down until I had an overheating problem. The fix was a 160 thermostat, a modified overflow tube as described and finally an extra baffle as described in the Service Bulletins pg. 450. Problem solved.

[32forddump]

I just ordered the thermostat. I don't have the service bulletin, can you explain the extra baffle?

[Ian in Mississauga]

Sorry for for the delay.The Bulletins say to cut a 1" disk from brass stock and punch a 3/8"hole for the overflow tube and finally solder it in 2 or 3 places. MIne is closer to a 2"disk.When I did this many years ago, I had never heard of the roofing nail fix.I would try the nail if I were doing it now. For sure install the thermostat and modify the overflow tube like the others say then drive it and see if the problem is solved.

[Beater]

Originally Posted by Ian in Mississauga

Sorry for for the delay.The Bulletins say to cut a 1" disk from brass stock and punch a 3/8"hole for the overflow tube and finally solder it in 2 or 3 places. MIne is closer to a 2"disk.When I did this many years ago, I had never heard of the roofing nail fix.I would try the nail if I were doing it now. For sure install the thermostat and modify the overflow tube like the others say then drive it and see if the problem is solved.

ive been haveing the same problems, this is the first time ive seen this fix.
i kinda thought i invented the idea, guess not. i didnt cut a brass disc but a heavy plastic disc out of the side of an oil jug and just sat it down on the inner shelf in there with a hole cut for the overflow tube. cured my problems. if you need it out i just reach in with a needle nose plyers

[MrBruce]

I've run a B for 30 years and pushed water out. I put a thermostat on the neck and ran the over flow tube up under the cap and then let the radiator seek it's own level. I haven't had any trouble for thirty years. We are in the mid 90's during the summer and it runs nice and cool. Just my 2 cents

[James Rogers]

One thing I have not seen addressed is the 2 steam holes in the middle of the block. These holes MUST be plugged or, the engine will either leak compression into the cooling system or water into the cylinder which, consequently will leak into the oil or, both. First thing to check, if you are unsure of these holes, is the oil. If it is leaking the oil will be light milky brown. If you find this is the problem, you need to plug these holes. Remove the head and gasket. you should be able to tap the holes with a 5/16 tap without doing any drilling and run a couple of 5/16 socket head set screws coated with a good sealer ie; prematex #2 or comparable into them. Replace the gasket and head and other previously removed parts and see if this solves the problem. If the oil is contaminated, change it, twice.

[32forddump]

I do believe there is less problem with the 30-31, since the radiator is taller than the 28-29.

[32forddump]

I pulled the pan to replace the gasket to see if I can stop some drips. I noticed water dripping out of #3 cylinder. I just had replaced the head gasket and replaced it with a model a gasket, it was $25.00 less. Now I know the difference in the 2 gaskets. what a dope. New model b head gasket ordered and while I'm here I thought I would take a look at the connecting rod clearance. Does anyone know the clearance and the torque on the bolts?

[32forddump]

Its a model b block and b head. I noticed that the model a gasket is narrower near #3 and #2 pistons than the model b gasket. That is why the water was leaking into the cyllinders. The 2 gaskets are very close in design .Another lesson learned. Im thinking about putting kerosene in the engine first to clean out the water.Since I do have the head off, I would like to fill the 2 steam holes. I believe James mentioned threading the 2 holes and putting a plug in them.Could you elaborate further on this? Are these steam holes only a problem when yiu run a model a head on the model b block?

[J Franklin]

I am curious about the comments on the steam holes also. Ford put those there for some reason I suppose.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by 32forddump

Its a model b block and b head. I noticed that the model a gasket is narrower near #3 and #2 pistons than the model b gasket. That is why the water was leaking into the cyllinders. The 2 gaskets are very close in design .Another lesson learned. Im thinking about putting kerosene in the engine first to clean out the water.Since I do have the head off, I would like to fill the 2 steam holes. I believe James mentioned threading the 2 holes and putting a plug in them.Could you elaborate further on this? Are these steam holes only a problem when yiu run a model a head on the model b block?

If you are running a "B" block and a "B" head why don't you just run a "B" gasket and solve the problem? If you use an "A" gasket there will be a gap that may come back to haunt you, I don't know, it just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Another solution would be a high compression after market head or a Model A police head should have combustion chambers that cover the two holes. I am running a "B" block with a Model "A" police head and a Model "B" gasket in my car.

Charlie Stephens

[32forddump]

Yes I agree regarding the b gasket. It was just a screw up on my part to install the model a gasket.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by forever4

Charlie
Aftermarket HC heads do not cover the steam holes any better, nor do they have steam holes in them, so neither A nor B gaskets are optimal when on a B block.

The nodern gasket designs do not match the original Model A or B or Police gaskets very well. Over the last 30 years, FelPro and the others have 'dumbed down' the gaskets to where they do not fit anything particularly well.

The Victor 900C1 was the last quality gasket (30 years ago) made IMO which properly fits the B head and the B block. The Best 573C when they were made in England were also very good, but the current USA Best 573C are not the same at all for combustion shape fit, though they may be the closest currently available.

Click> http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABcy...asketguide.htm

X-2 on the accuracy of Vince statements of fact !

Add that I plug ALL four 'steam holes' of the B block , to match the aftermarket heads that are made without such.

[32forddump]

I am purchasing the model a police head, so i believe what I'm reading is I will be using the model a head gasket and I will be blocking the steam holes.

[32forddump]

I installed the thermostat in the hose leaving water pump and have had no problems with overheating since. Thanks for all your help.