Salvage title perception question

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

We started looking at repair, their guy who said he knew nothing about old cars came up with 6500 to repair, but ignored the brake hardware damage, a lot of the steering system and the fact that the body is racked to the side (car came to rest on drivers side) I found an older gentleman who actually repairs old cars and his drop it off and pick up a ready car is 12K. If I accept a lower fix it offer I will have to do much of the repair myself to fix a car someone else screwed up to get it back to it's previous state. It's state was an unrestored driver that I could take to work at 55 with a straight rust free body and fenders that showed 80 years of use..... The expensive part is getting the body straight and back to previous state, you could close both doors smoothly with a single finger. Mechanically there is damage to the frame, steering brakes and a cracked bell housing along with 3 of 4 fenders....

They want to total the car because of basic math, the ins company values the car at 10K (I think this is reasonable) and repair est came in at 12K.

Accepting their estimate of the car's value I don't have a big problem with. The issue is why must the title be stamped? This is where legal advice can tell you why they want that. Why is a simple release from you that you accept that amount for the damage not acceptable? There is some legal advantage to them here. If you accept that situation you will spend much more in the future trying to get a title than you will for a quick visit to the lawyer.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

That is the $64,000 question.....

Currently my Insurance company can't insure a vehicle in my state with a salvage title..... I am looking into what a reconstructed designation means.

I have co workers who do have insurance on salvaged vehicles in NM, so it appears someone is writing policies.

Insured as a modern car maybe, but as a collector car with a collector car insurance company?

[Rowdy]

Definitions of titles vary state to state. Even though my delivery has parts from many cars and the origianal title and numbers are long gone. I ended up with a "Bonded Title" in 2 more years I can send in the paperwork and will have what amounts to an "Origianl Title" I had a long talk with a lawyer about what i should persue. In actuality by definition I should have applied for an "Assembled Vehicle Title", but it was decided that the "Bonded Title" was fine as my car fit the elements of the Spirit of the Law although not the written definition. No problems with the proccess at this point. Rod

[Jerry Parr WI]

Went searching the web and think I found the answer. State laws require vehicles to be totaled if the repair exceeds 75% of the value (80% in FL). Seems you have little choice unless you accept $7500. for your loss. You might get that up by finding a higher appraisal and a lower repair estimate. I'm sure the insurance company won't do the leg work but if you could get an appraisal for $12. and an estimate for $9. you could get under the limit. I doubt they would fight the savings.

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

Went searching the web and think I found the answer. State laws require vehicles to be totaled if the repair exceeds 75% of the value (80% in FL). Seems you have little choice unless you accept $7500. for your loss. You might get that up by finding a higher appraisal and a lower repair estimate. I'm sure the insurance company won't do the leg work but if you could get an appraisal for $12. and an estimate for $9. you could get under the limit. I doubt they would fight the savings.

That is the answer, it isn't the insurance company who wants to mark the title salvage, it is state law in NM that any vehicle that the insurance company makes a total loss payment on must be marked salvage. This is an NM insurance commission thing, if they don't do it they are in violation. The company doesn't care, they are prepared to pay out the policy max (sadly just enough to cover the value of the car as he had state min) since the guy was charged with reckless driving and dwi.

Per NM 66-1-4.16
C. "salvage vehicle" means a vehicle:
(1) other than a nonrepairable vehicle, of a type subject to registration that has been wrecked, destroyed or damaged excluding, pursuant to rules issued by the department, hail damage, to the extent that the owner, leasing company, financial institution or the insurance company that insured or is responsible for repair of the vehicle considers it uneconomical to repair the vehicle and that is subsequently not repaired by or for the person who owned the vehicle at the time of the event resulting in damage; or
(2) that was determined to be uneconomical to repair and for which a total loss payment is made by an insurer, whether or not the vehicle is subsequently repaired, if, prior to or upon making payment to the claimant, the insurer obtained the agreement of the claimant to the amount of the total loss settlement and informed the claimant that, pursuant to rules of the department, the title must be branded and submitted to the department for issuance of a salvage certificate of title for the vehicle;


Currently leaning to total loss, get the salvage title, rebuild car and submit forms MVD-10053 and MVD-10015 to get a reconstructed title and retain the original year/make/model/VIN while erasing the salvage from the title. Only downside I can see is that I will also have a state issued VIN applied as a second reference. Since this will never be a fine points show car in my ownership, it will just become part of the cars history.

[Jerry Parr WI]

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You might also consider a parts car with parts you need that has a clean title. After the restoration who knows which car you really have.

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Restamping the block is illegal under federal law.

denis4x4, I would like to look up that law. Can you give me a federal statute number?
Thanks

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

denis4x4, I would like to look up that law. Can you give me a federal statute number?
Thanks

Your right we have read often from a friend that is a peace officer, or "was told by the DMV". I also would like to be able to say here is the statute.

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Your right we have read often from a friend that is a peace officer, or "was told by the DMV". I also would like to be able to say here is the statute.

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/news2012/riley.sen.html

I purchased all of the running gear for a 1931 Cabriolet and the California seller retained the original pink slip as I was going to register the finished car in Colorado. He stamped a new number on the frame. Everything was fine until I went to pick up the engine and saw that he'd ground off the number. I sent a letter to the criminal division of the California DMV and I heard later on that he paid some heavy fines and that he had to re-register the hot rod.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/news2012/riley.sen.html

I purchased all of the running gear for a 1931 Cabriolet and the California seller retained the original pink slip as I was going to register the finished car in Colorado. He stamped a new number on the frame. Everything was fine until I went to pick up the engine and saw that he'd ground off the number. I sent a letter to the criminal division of the California DMV and I heard later on that he paid some heavy fines and that he had to re-register the hot rod.

In your case and in the case cited, the sellers attempted to cheat the government out of money by creating an entire car from scratch (Kit Car) and pass it off as the real deal.

If we as owners of the vehicles only want to get the vehicle on the road in the same condition as we originally had it and there is no financial difference to the state, what is the crime?

Is it the simple act of changing a number on a part or doing so to defraud the Government?

Do we have an example of a person that simply restamped an orginial engine to place it in an original car?

[Vetcol]

After all the reading here, I would try to take less so it's not totaled. THEN I WOULD TRY TO GET THE LAW CHANGED.

[ronn]

It is the act of two people, buyer and seller both wanting the title when in fact the body was divided from the chassis. (hot rod)
Doesn't sound like it was an amicable deal to me....

[Aok]

Any time there is any non standard attachment to a title there will always be some who will not purchase so there is defiantly a loss of value to the vehicle. AS for me I would not consider purchasing a vehicle with a salvage title.

[29ModelA]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mow/news2012/riley.sen.html

I purchased all of the running gear for a 1931 Cabriolet and the California seller retained the original pink slip as I was going to register the finished car in Colorado. He stamped a new number on the frame. Everything was fine until I went to pick up the engine and saw that he'd ground off the number. I sent a letter to the criminal division of the California DMV and I heard later on that he paid some heavy fines and that he had to re-register the hot rod.

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

In your case and in the case cited, the sellers attempted to cheat the government out of money by creating an entire car from scratch (Kit Car) and pass it off as the real deal.

If we as owners of the vehicles only want to get the vehicle on the road in the same condition as we originally had it and there is no financial difference to the state, what is the crime?

Is it the simple act of changing a number on a part or doing so to defraud the Government?

Do we have an example of a person that simply restamped an orginial engine to place it in an original car?

Exactly as I see it. Grinding a frame number IMO is like grinding a VIN #

Grinding engine numbers was actually a common practice back in the day. My Engine block does not match my frame. It was a catalog bought engine I believe. The number on it is not a Ford number and starts with an R. California had my car titled to this generic number.

When I titled the car in MI I titled it to the frame number since the engine is so easily (and likely will be) changed.

[flexiheep]

As an update I finally settled the property damage portion of the insurance recently. In the end they valued the car above the $10K policy limit he was carrying, so since they were going to have to pay out the policy max I finally convinced them to treat it as a repair not a total loss. It sadly took 3 weeks and getting rather nasty with them over the fact that I wasn't willing to accept a salvage title when they couldn't pay me the full value of the car as they had determined it ($10K limit vs. $14.5K determined value).

Still wish that the guy had carried more than the state min insurance, but at least I got enough to fix the car without a salvage title. I also found a hot rod guy who had a chassis/fenders/hood/grill/etc for a good price. Now I just need to start rebuilding parts and get the car rebuild going.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Well while $10k won't go too far, I am glad for your outcome both in health and finances as both could have been much worse then, ...and now!!

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by flexiheep

As an update I finally settled the property damage portion of the insurance recently. In the end they valued the car above the $10K policy limit he was carrying, . . .
Still wish that the guy had carried more than the state min insurance, but at least I got enough to fix the car without a salvage title. . .

The fact that he had the state 10K minimum doesn't get him off the hook for the rest of it! Now you sue him for the balance. Since HIS insurance shows a value above their liability, take that paperwork and go after him. They have effectively put their own client on the hook for the difference. That's why they were pushing for you to sign-off on a salvage deal.

[Mitch//pa]

wow on the flip. thank goodness no one was hurt
you might want to consider an agreed value policy so if needed your own company can make you whole again for circunstances like this

[flexiheep]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Well while $10k won't go too far, I am glad for your outcome both in health and finances as both could have been much worse then, ...and now!!

I have found this state (NM) to be kind of backwards with respect to some things, I mean, what can you hit in an accident for 10K....... I have made made several people rethink their coverage and find out that the difference between the min and 4-5X the coverage was small, one person found it to be $7 a year......

We were lucky, we were turning left when the guy decided to pass in a no passing zone doing 65 in a 40 and Tboned us right about the bell housing area on his Harley Roadking. Spun us 180 and then the car slowly turned over (BTW my wife watched it happen as she was behind us). I ended up with road rash on my arm from the open window, and my son ended up with a few stitches under his ear, my daughter came out unscathed except it was her birthday this happened on. The guy who hit me and his wife didn't fare as well, they survived, but won't be forgetting the choices they made for a while since they were wearing no protective gear.........

While $10K isn't a lot to get the car repaired, it should get it back to where it was, and hopefully better as I will be rebuilding the worn out parts as I go. Finding the running chassis and fenders got me most of the parts I am going to need.

Now on to the medical part of this stupid thing.