Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2019, 12:48 PM   #1
bigd1101
Senior Member
 
bigd1101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ithaca
Posts: 345
Default Securing the exhaust better

As we all know, the Model A's exhaust system is pretty simple and as far as I can see, only one hanger at the far end of the tail pipe assembly is the only thing other than the connection at the manifold which is dubious at best unless you have some custom flanging done to improve the "grip" where the two meet. With the other problems that seem to plague that juncture with a not so perfect union due to the bend in the pipe that comes with the new mufflers and that they don't always align up enough to prevent leaks without good gaskets and or muffler cement, which is exactly the problem I plan on alleviating this weekend with said ingredients, the connection as is worries me.



Now, is there a place I can add a pipe hanger closer to the muffler or past that towards the upward bend to relieve the pressure on the pipe/manifold connection? I don't trust the connection on it's own to hold as it blew out when I first stared up the A last week. I had the clamp damn tight, thought the alignment was good, but no.....all of a sudden the A sounded like a bi-plane coming in for a landing.


Don
bigd1101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2019, 01:33 PM   #2
DD931
Senior Member
 
DD931's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PA Poconos
Posts: 723
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

You can get a short tapered piece of exhaust pipe that goes behind that joint to make it much less likely to leak.
DD931 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-24-2019, 01:41 PM   #3
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,811
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

It's my view that the original arrangement works well when you have the proper flange on the pipe where it meets the exhaust manifold. Sometimes the manifolds droop toward the end due to the heat of the exhaust, which can also cause misalignment at the joint.

When I first bought my Town Sedan, I had real problems with that connection. My manifold was cracked toward the end and the pipe came disconnected often. I first replaced the exhaust manifold with an uncracked one, but the problem persisted. I tried everything.

At the MARC National Meet in Niagara Falls, I looked at an Aires muffler and noticed how wide the flange was and realized that was my problem, so I took my old muffler to a muffler shop where they made the flange bigger. That took care of that problem and the pipe never disconnected again. I later replaced the exhaust manifold due to the droop, which cause leakage at #4 exhaust port, as well. Not a single problem since I had the flange reworked,
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2019, 02:27 PM   #4
john in illinois
Senior Member
 
john in illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,181
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

I have used the stock set up with an Aries muffler for 26,000 mile never a problem except rattles which I have cured with rubber cushions.

You need an original spec clamp. Some repos are not made right-as with many parts.

John
__________________
Welcome each day
john in illinois is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2019, 02:44 PM   #5
BillCNC
Senior Member
 
BillCNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SoCal Desert
Posts: 826
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

I agree, there should be another hanger but you can bend the pipe at the 90° bend to get it aligned correctly.

Over the year's the muffler weight sag's the hot manifold causing it close up the 90° bend making alignment a real pain. It doesn't take much to re-bend it to the proper alignment angle. Just put in a chain link fence post or something equivalent. You can also tape a rag on the end of the pipe so you wont get pressure dings in the muffler pipe from the end of the chain link post. It took me like 2 minutes and it was in perfect alignment.

Regards
Bill
BillCNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #6
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,339
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
There should not be another hanger unless if flexes. The rear hanger is a sliding fit to allow for expansion and contraction of the exhaust system. It is not a clamp. If it is too tight you might end up with bowed pipe. In an older posting someone suggested a strip of fiberglass muffler wrap be used around the pipe at the support.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 04:06 PM   #7
duke36
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,414
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Some of us install the gland rings between the manifold and block. Also, fabricating a flexible (rubber laden) rear hanger strap similar to modern cars can help with tailpipe rattle while providing stability / expansion/ contraction,.etc. A universal firm rubber type NAPA strap can be adapted with some bent plate or angles. Ist install the muffler at manifold end while supporting loosely the rear pipe with the stock bracket strap. Then remove the stock rear strap and install the flexible one at the stock hole location. Wrapping the pipe at the rear stock bracket sometimes won't stop the rattle and still make the pipe too tight when it expands or is misaligned.
duke36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 04:45 PM   #8
steve s
Senior Member
 
steve s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 1,656
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke36 View Post
Some of us install the gland rings between the manifold and block. Also, fabricating a flexible (rubber laden) rear hanger strap similar to modern cars can help with tailpipe rattle while providing stability / expansion/ contraction,.etc. A universal firm rubber type NAPA strap can be adapted with some bent plate or angles. Ist install the muffler at manifold end while supporting loosely the rear pipe with the stock bracket strap. Then remove the stock rear strap and install the flexible one at the stock hole location. Wrapping the pipe at the rear stock bracket sometimes won't stop the rattle and still make the pipe too tight when it expands or is misaligned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
There should not be another hanger unless if flexes. The rear hanger is a sliding fit to allow for expansion and contraction of the exhaust system. It is not a clamp. If it is too tight you might end up with bowed pipe. In an older posting someone suggested a strip of fiberglass muffler wrap be used around the pipe at the support.
Here's what I did. Fiberglass between the rubber and the metal. My main motivation was vibration reductions as this contact is an almost solid contact bwtween mootor and frame. Why screw around? Get an Aries and correct clamp--problems gone.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2006 Muffle ID 011 (8).jpg (54.5 KB, 121 views)
File Type: jpg 2006-08-02 Aries muffler swap-a.jpg (70.6 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg mufflers dimensions.jpg (33.4 KB, 108 views)
File Type: jpg 2006-08-02 Aries muffler swap (3).jpg (92.6 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg muffler clamp 001 a.jpg (66.0 KB, 96 views)

Last edited by steve s; 05-25-2019 at 04:53 PM.
steve s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 08:10 PM   #9
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

On one of my cars, I experimented with a couple of ways to take the weight of the muffler off the manifold. I welded a piece of metal to the pipe just in front of the muffler and put a spring between that and the engine mount. Not sure it did any good but the manifold is still OK and it made me feel like I had achieved something! As for the rear mount, I put a nut between the ends of the clamp so it won't close up completely, then wrap a piece of masking tape or cling wrap aound the pipe. I hold the pipe in the middle of the clamp (which is very loose) with wooded wedges. I then fill the gap all round with silicone and leave it overnight to cure. The pipe slips in the silicone after the tape burns off and it runs silent.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 09:46 PM   #10
Gold Digger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Arkansas & Alaska
Posts: 642
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

I've owned and operated a tool & Die shop for over 35 years and have made lots of rear exhaust hangers for my friends Model A's. Not bragging but about the best I've seen for fixing the rear hanger. I have made so many I even built a stamping die to form the metal bracket that a piece of conveyor belt fastens to and then the original clamp fastens to the conveyor belt. If I could send a picture I would do so, but I'm not very good at those things. Maybe I can get a younger person to help me. I know they work perfect because everyone that uses one tells me so. No more rattle and can move front to back with heat and contraction.
Gold Digger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2019, 10:39 PM   #11
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,550
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Vermin had a piece of angle aluminum the was mounted to the transmission on one end and with a U-shaped muffler clamp holding the front of the muffler. That didn't do much but space it out from the block the correct distance. Maybe Bill Williamson remembers the theory on that piece?
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 11:42 AM   #12
dmaxweb
Senior Member
 
dmaxweb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 510
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold Digger View Post
I've owned and operated a tool & Die shop for over 35 years and have made lots of rear exhaust hangers for my friends Model A's. Not bragging but about the best I've seen for fixing the rear hanger. I have made so many I even built a stamping die to form the metal bracket that a piece of conveyor belt fastens to and then the original clamp fastens to the conveyor belt. If I could send a picture I would do so, but I'm not very good at those things. Maybe I can get a younger person to help me. I know they work perfect because everyone that uses one tells me so. No more rattle and can move front to back with heat and contraction.

Private message sent
dmaxweb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 12:09 PM   #13
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,099
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

What ever means the rear clamp/support is used it is important that tail pipe fore and aft expansion and contraction be taken into consideration.

John
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 12:48 PM   #14
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,686
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Don't forget the engine movement, especially with float-a-motors. Don't tie the front of the pipe down too tight.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 12:49 PM   #15
Jacksonlll
Senior Member
 
Jacksonlll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC
Posts: 1,686
Send a message via ICQ to Jacksonlll
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Gold Digger, I want a clamp.
Jacksonlll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 01:00 PM   #16
rocket1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midland Park,N.J.
Posts: 1,108
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

I would make sure the clamp at the manifold is not inverted or half upside down.I purchased the clamp from Brattons great quality the muffler flange has to be dead nuts on exhaust manifold and clamp tightened securely,it will never fall off.
rocket1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 01:25 PM   #17
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 1,092
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

I used a universal hanger to isolate my tail pipe. It works well and lets the pipe move where it needs to go but it sure doesn't look pretty. My exhaust does occasionally start to leak at the manifold joint. For whatever reason, the rear clamp bolt loosens slightly and snugging it back up quiets everything down.
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 02:05 PM   #18
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,334
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

There was a guy making "No Nut" muffler clamps that work really well as you only need a socket to tighten. I think his business was called 'Red Quail' or something like that. I seem to have misplaced his contact info.

I do like Ryan and use a universal hanger. I had to double nut the bolts to keep them from loosening.
__________________
Ruth
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 05:33 PM   #19
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
There was a guy making "No Nut" muffler clamps that work really well as you only need a socket to tighten. I think his business was called 'Red Quail' or something like that. I seem to have misplaced his contact info.

I do like Ryan and use a universal hanger. I had to double nut the bolts to keep them from loosening.
On a RHD Model A, the orientation of the exhaust clamp is critical. If it is even slightly out, the clutch pedal won't go down. To make this easier, we have for many years converted the standard clamp to the type you mention by putting a helicoil in one side. Orientation is then less critical but still a PITA.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2020, 06:48 PM   #20
Ruth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Glide, Oregon
Posts: 1,334
Default Re: Securing the exhaust better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
On a RHD Model A, the orientation of the exhaust clamp is critical. If it is even slightly out, the clutch pedal won't go down. To make this easier, we have for many years converted the standard clamp to the type you mention by putting a helicoil in one side. Orientation is then less critical but still a PITA.
Thanks Synchro. That is good to know.
__________________
Ruth
"Sometimes you really DO need to read the whole thread"
Ruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 AM.