The Ford Barn

Doctor's Ford · 07-12-2011, 01:02 AM

I started restoring my 33 Tudor model B with a 4 cyl engine. Can somebody clarify what the HP of this engine is? My "early V8 restoration book" does not provide the information. The V8 engine apparently has 85 HP but no specific 4 cyl info given. Need this data to buy the engine overhaul kit. Thank you

Mike V. Florida · 07-12-2011, 01:21 AM

50 Hp at 2800 rpm with a 4.8 head.

Charlie Stephens · 07-12-2011, 11:55 AM

This may be a dumb question (that could lead to something else) but why do you need the horsepower to buy the engine overhaul kit? Don't you just need a kit for a 4 cylinder 1933 Ford? Are they giving you any choices for horsepower? There was only one 4 cylinder engine available in the Ford unless they might be getting into some of the smaller displacement engines used in Europe.

Charlie Stephens

thepolecat · 07-12-2011, 01:32 PM

you have the choice usually of a model A, B, or C- they may be asking type of engine in that respect.

Floyd · 07-12-2011, 01:57 PM

He may be asking because there was the 124 cubic inch 4 banger for export trade. (look at his address) Therefore outside of the U.S.,that info is important. Also there is no such thing as a model C.
Thanks
Floyd

Walt Dupont--Me. · 07-12-2011, 06:46 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd

He may be asking because there was the 124 cubic inch 4 banger for export trade. (look at his address) Therefore outside of the U.S.,that info is important. Also there is no such thing as a model C.
Thanks
Floyd

Your right Floyd, there is no such thing as a C engine. Now that will make alot of old timers start thinking. I build alot of A and B engines. Walt

Doctor's Ford · 07-12-2011, 10:35 PM

Floyd is right. The car is in South America, it is an export R hand drive but I have no idea if engine HP is the same as the US model. There were no issues with taxation in South America the way it was in Europe, so probably is the same US engine. I know it is a model B for sure based on the serial on the chassis. The reason I needed the HP is that Kanter won't even quote a kit if I don't provide the HP. They claim there are different kits based on HP. I also thought that was not important as pointed by Charlie Stephens, but what the heck, otherwise they would not sell one to me. Does anyone think that is correct? I am getting nervous about ordering a $700 + kit and it could be the wrong one. Comments appreciated.

Tudortomnz · 07-13-2011, 03:31 AM

If your '33 Tudor is the US export RHD model that were sent to Sth America, it will be the US 50hp engine. The 'small bore' engines were used by Ford England & are usually not found outside Europe, except for a few [mostly commercial chassis] exported by Ford UK from '33 to some British Dominion countries. They were British versions of the '32 type.

Kurt in NJ · 07-13-2011, 07:38 AM

I think you need to know the size of the bore in your engine, if the bore for the piston is worn you will need to know what oversize it will be machined to.

for connecting rods you will need to know what size the crankshaft is, or what size it will be machined to

The crankshaft main bearings are poured in the block ---then machined in the block to the size of your crankshaft

Sometimes the oversize of the existing pistons is marked on the piston ---and sometimes a standard sized piston is in a larger bore, I have seen bores that were near standard size at the bottom, and .060 oversize at the top due to wear.

Are you trying to do this yourself? Do you have a garage/machine shop helping you?

Doctor's Ford · 07-13-2011, 08:43 AM

Thanks for your replies. Everything will be done by a garage shop. I have no expertise at all. I just to have it done correctly and then enjoy driving it. Since I am spending a few weeks in the US I wanted to take the opportunity to bring all those parts back with me. I think I will call my mechanic and ask him about the size of the bore and crankshaft as you suggested. Its worth waiting a few weeks and order the right one!

Bruce Lancaster · 07-13-2011, 09:25 AM

Joblot Automotive is one US source, old firm in New York with plenty of South American export experience. http://www.joblotauto.com/

Sacramento Vintage Ford in California is a major Model B supplier, and Renner at http://www.rennerscorner.com/index.html covers engine accessories.

You need some books that are easy to get in reproduction from any old Ford parts place:
owner's manual (if 34 B is not available, get '32 B and '34 V8 ones!)
1932 Service Bulletins...major source of Model B information
1932-36 repair manual, reprint of an early manual
And you MUST get the '28-32 parts book, because you need to know what parts are the same as Model A and hence easy to get!

Kurt in NJ · 07-13-2011, 09:26 PM

Another option ----inserts, ---perhaps your engine man is not used to doing babbitt, but can line bore, and do machining.
http://antiqueenginerebuilding.com/
I think he has "B" rods that can use 283 chevy pistons ---

also look at the set of "modern" type valves ---and other engine parts

tiger.1000 · 07-14-2011, 04:04 PM

To really complicate things...........in the UK the Model B engines were RAC rated at
14.9hp and 24hp

RAC = Royal Automobile Club.

This calculation was used to asses road tax. Thus a 24hp Model B would attract a tax of £24.00 per annum....about a tenth of the price of the car when new.

A Ford 8 would be taxed at £8.00....the car cost £100.00.....about the price of a terraced house in the North of England !

07-12-2011, 01:02 AM	#1
Doctor's Ford Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: South Dakota Posts: 405	1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? I started restoring my 33 Tudor model B with a 4 cyl engine. Can somebody clarify what the HP of this engine is? My "early V8 restoration book" does not provide the information. The V8 engine apparently has 85 HP but no specific 4 cyl info given. Need this data to buy the engine overhaul kit. Thank you

07-12-2011, 01:21 AM	#2
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? 50 Hp at 2800 rpm with a 4.8 head. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

07-12-2011, 11:55 AM	#3
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,033	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? This may be a dumb question (that could lead to something else) but why do you need the horsepower to buy the engine overhaul kit? Don't you just need a kit for a 4 cylinder 1933 Ford? Are they giving you any choices for horsepower? There was only one 4 cylinder engine available in the Ford unless they might be getting into some of the smaller displacement engines used in Europe. Charlie Stephens

07-12-2011, 01:32 PM	#4
thepolecat Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 9	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? you have the choice usually of a model A, B, or C- they may be asking type of engine in that respect.

07-12-2011, 01:57 PM	#5
Floyd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 468	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? He may be asking because there was the 124 cubic inch 4 banger for export trade. (look at his address) Therefore outside of the U.S.,that info is important. Also there is no such thing as a model C. Thanks Floyd

07-12-2011, 10:35 PM	#7
Doctor's Ford Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: South Dakota Posts: 405	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? Floyd is right. The car is in South America, it is an export R hand drive but I have no idea if engine HP is the same as the US model. There were no issues with taxation in South America the way it was in Europe, so probably is the same US engine. I know it is a model B for sure based on the serial on the chassis. The reason I needed the HP is that Kanter won't even quote a kit if I don't provide the HP. They claim there are different kits based on HP. I also thought that was not important as pointed by Charlie Stephens, but what the heck, otherwise they would not sell one to me. Does anyone think that is correct? I am getting nervous about ordering a $700 + kit and it could be the wrong one. Comments appreciated.

07-13-2011, 03:31 AM	#8
Tudortomnz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canterbury, New Zealand Posts: 1,242	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? If your '33 Tudor is the US export RHD model that were sent to Sth America, it will be the US 50hp engine. The 'small bore' engines were used by Ford England & are usually not found outside Europe, except for a few [mostly commercial chassis] exported by Ford UK from '33 to some British Dominion countries. They were British versions of the '32 type.

07-13-2011, 07:38 AM	#9
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? I think you need to know the size of the bore in your engine, if the bore for the piston is worn you will need to know what oversize it will be machined to. for connecting rods you will need to know what size the crankshaft is, or what size it will be machined to The crankshaft main bearings are poured in the block ---then machined in the block to the size of your crankshaft Sometimes the oversize of the existing pistons is marked on the piston ---and sometimes a standard sized piston is in a larger bore, I have seen bores that were near standard size at the bottom, and .060 oversize at the top due to wear. Are you trying to do this yourself? Do you have a garage/machine shop helping you?

07-13-2011, 08:43 AM	#10
Doctor's Ford Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: South Dakota Posts: 405	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? Thanks for your replies. Everything will be done by a garage shop. I have no expertise at all. I just to have it done correctly and then enjoy driving it. Since I am spending a few weeks in the US I wanted to take the opportunity to bring all those parts back with me. I think I will call my mechanic and ask him about the size of the bore and crankshaft as you suggested. Its worth waiting a few weeks and order the right one!

07-13-2011, 09:25 AM	#11
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? Joblot Automotive is one US source, old firm in New York with plenty of South American export experience. http://www.joblotauto.com/ Sacramento Vintage Ford in California is a major Model B supplier, and Renner at http://www.rennerscorner.com/index.html covers engine accessories. You need some books that are easy to get in reproduction from any old Ford parts place: owner's manual (if 34 B is not available, get '32 B and '34 V8 ones!) 1932 Service Bulletins...major source of Model B information 1932-36 repair manual, reprint of an early manual And you MUST get the '28-32 parts book, because you need to know what parts are the same as Model A and hence easy to get!

07-13-2011, 09:26 PM	#12
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? Another option ----inserts, ---perhaps your engine man is not used to doing babbitt, but can line bore, and do machining. http://antiqueenginerebuilding.com/ I think he has "B" rods that can use 283 chevy pistons --- also look at the set of "modern" type valves ---and other engine parts

07-14-2011, 04:04 PM	#13
tiger.1000 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Hertford (UK) Posts: 905	Re: 1933 Model B 4 cyl horse power? To really complicate things...........in the UK the Model B engines were RAC rated at 14.9hp and 24hp RAC = Royal Automobile Club. This calculation was used to asses road tax. Thus a 24hp Model B would attract a tax of £24.00 per annum....about a tenth of the price of the car when new. A Ford 8 would be taxed at £8.00....the car cost £100.00.....about the price of a terraced house in the North of England !