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Old 05-10-2021, 11:04 AM   #1
OldGold360
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Default PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Hello... As some of you know, I am in the middle of restoring my '36 Pickup. I now have two choices on engines for my pickup, the 8BA that it came with when I bought it, and a '41 59A thanks to a fellow Barn member. I am leaning towards using the 59A and am looking for recommendations on experienced flathead engine rebuilders or machinist in the PNW. I am in halfway between Seattle and Portland, but would be willing to travel up to 5 hours, possibly more, for the right person. I am not opposed to doing some of the disassembly and reassembly, but I have no way to do any of the machine work, and would be more comfortable having someone with experience rebuild at least the short block for me. Any recommendations on shops or things that I should consider are appreciated.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 05-10-2021, 11:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I think the first thing you should do is determine exactly which early engine you have. There is no such thing as a 1941 59A. The "5" designates the year of introduction, in this case 1945. If it is a '41 engine, here is a good chance that it is a 221 ci rather than a 239. If it really is a 59n (there are a bunch of varieties), it would probably the best choice if both engines are in the same shape. You should also be aware the the pre-'49 engines have full-floating rod bearings, which can be hard to find, expensive, and difficult to fit. Unless you already know the condition of both blocks, the first thing you have to do is disassemble them and do some preliminary crack checking. You decision may have already been made for you.

The way things currently work out, you will be lucky if even one of the blocks is good.
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Old 05-10-2021, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

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I think the first thing you should do is determine exactly which early engine you have. There is no such thing as a 1941 59A. The "5" designates the year of introduction, in this case 1945. If it is a '41 engine, here is a good chance that it is a 221 ci rather than a 239.

Not so fast.....! As so eloquently explained by our illustrious friend Bruce Lancaster (RIP), see below.

"I believe the 41A was of course given the "1" designation in the parts book to indicate that it was in the 221 family, but was made with a full set of 59 cores except for the actual barrels and so retained the 59 designation. 3 1/16 59 blocks are around, but I don't know of anyone who has seen a 41 casting...hence my belief that these oddities ARE the 41A block. The "1" designation generally survived here with the 51, indicating Ford as distinguished from Merc models and parts...then in '47-8 and on into the early '50's the parts prfixes went nuts for a while."


In other words, a "factory" REPLACEMENT block for '38-'42 24-stud, 221 cu. in. engines. DD
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Old 05-10-2021, 01:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I heard Dave Tatum in Mount Vernon used to be very good at rebuilding and machine work. No personal experience just word of mouth from reliable friends.
Try calling 360-770-3760 Tatum Custom Engines
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Old 05-10-2021, 02:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

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Not so fast.....! As so eloquently explained by our illustrious friend Bruce Lancaster (RIP), see below.

"I believe the 41A was of course given the "1" designation in the parts book to indicate that it was in the 221 family, but was made with a full set of 59 cores except for the actual barrels and so retained the 59 designation. 3 1/16 59 blocks are around, but I don't know of anyone who has seen a 41 casting...hence my belief that these oddities ARE the 41A block. The "1" designation generally survived here with the 51, indicating Ford as distinguished from Merc models and parts...then in '47-8 and on into the early '50's the parts prfixes went nuts for a while."


In other words, a "factory" REPLACEMENT block for '38-'42 24-stud, 221 cu. in. engines. DD
I'll win the lottery tonight, too.
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Old 05-10-2021, 03:28 PM   #6
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I used to sell Dave T5 kits and it's been a few years but at that time he was contemplating retirement, whether he did or didn't I have no idea.
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Old 05-10-2021, 04:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Thanks guys. I appreciate the info. I know my 8BA block is good and was running when I got it. I have performed a visual inspection for cracks but nothing more. I will contact Dave Tatum to see if he is still doing this work. I’d like to speak with whoever I plan to do the rebuild to ask whether I should perform the tear down or if I should let the rebuilder do it. I’ve never rebuilt a Flathead so I just want to make sure I avoid any possible mistakes. Thanks for the replies.
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Old 05-10-2021, 04:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I had my 8ba rebuilt by Cope Bros. in Parkland (Tacoma) 253-531-1776 with good results.
Over the years I've had them do a few SBC's, and a BBC also, all with good results.
Call Darrel he's straight shooter, and a good guy.
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Old 05-10-2021, 05:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

.

OldGold ......Whoever you come-up with, just maybe run the name by some of us here BEFORE you commit or drop your engine off. There are a couple of INFAMOUS, so-called flathead rebuilders up that direction that have literally stolen multiple THOUSANDS and thousands of dollars from customers that trusted them with engine projects, that literally YEARS later, still can't get the "scums" to finish and return their engines. We're talking about 'lawyers and the Sheriff' type situations. BE CAREFUL!! IF you are careful, there ARE still some excellent flatty rebuilders doing honest business out there. DD
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Old 05-10-2021, 05:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Thanks! I’ll be sure to do that. I spoke with Dave Tatum on the phone today. He is still building flatheads but told me he’s taking some time off until Sept. due to back surgery. I’m in no hurry getting an engine ready for my pickup since I still have so much to do on just the body, but I am trying to get all my ducks in a row. Perhaps Dave is the guy I should use or maybe there is someone else in my area I should consider.
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Old 05-10-2021, 06:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Dave Tatum was said to build flatheads that would humble a small block Chevy, so you are in good hands.
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Old 05-10-2021, 06:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

If Dave is still doing motors he is the go to guy in your area. Dave will not stroke you. From my experience he does what he says and is as good a FH builder there is. He is worth the wait.
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Old 05-10-2021, 07:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Try Marshall Woolery at Thun Field Hot Rods in Tacoma. He farms some of the machine work out but the finished product is first cabin.
Tell him I sent you and he won't double the price.
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Old 05-10-2021, 08:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Dave Tatom is both a personal friend and my engine machinist. I have 3 flatheads he built plus a stroked brand X engine. One engine is highly modified, one is bone stock in my Dearborn car, and one slightly modified. The thing to remember about Dave is that he is north of 80 and has slowed down a lot, mostly due to back issues. As others have said, his work is VERY good, however his health has slowed him significantly. I hope his back issue is able to be fixed and he gets back to it soon. You need to have a good or fixable block, he doesn't scrounge like in the old days. You can look at davetatom.com for some information but any prices listed are obsolete. He also used to rebuild airplane engines so that should tell you something about the quality of his work.
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Old 05-10-2021, 08:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Dave is a good friend of mine also. We are in the same club and I have known him for many years. I have used his main caps on several of my engines. I knew of his medical problems is why I didn't mention him.
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Old 05-11-2021, 09:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Portland Engine Rebuilders is also a good firm.
They did the hot little flatty in a 34 pickup, recently donated to
our museum (WAAAMuseum.org). Also did a 460 BBF for me
more recently. High quality work, reasonable prices!
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:04 AM   #17
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I have heard that Earl Floyd is a good builder. Don't know if he still does it. 28915 N.E. 82nd Ave, Battle Ground WA, 98604. 360-687-2202
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I spoke to a couple guys mentioned here. One wants to buy a new 8ba crank, cam, rods, etc to replace the factory installed 41 crank due to the rod bearings. I’ve heard about the bearings being hard to locate for the motors around 1941, but does a stock rebuild really warrant replacing the crank, assuming the original is still good? Thanks for the help here. I do not have much experience with flatheads and certainly never rebuilt one, so I appreciate all the help.
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I'd second either Marshall Woolery or Dave Tatum...

As others have said Dave is getting up there; I haven't seen him since I retired from the aircraft gig a couple of years ago. Hope he can get his back fixed...
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Bearings are not that hard to come by & floaters are a great bearings. Preserve.
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Old 05-12-2021, 09:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I also can vouch for Dave Tatum. Last time I stopped by his shop he was sitting on a stool setting valve lash. He has always been good to me with price and his old flying stories are worth the drive. Actually about 1/2 hour after I get off the ferry.
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Old 05-13-2021, 08:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Quote:
Originally Posted by '36 5W View Post
Portland Engine Rebuilders is also a good firm.
They did the hot little flatty in a 34 pickup, recently donated to
our museum (WAAAMuseum.org). Also did a 460 BBF for me
more recently. High quality work, reasonable prices!
Long time customer of PER (formerly Larsen and King). They built many performance engines in the day. Ted King was who I used to deal with when he built my 396 and a couple of circle track brand X motors. I've heard thru the grapevine he does strictly the performance end of the business now.

I would highly recommend them for any flatty work. As I remember he even said they had a set of torque plates.
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Old 05-13-2021, 08:46 AM   #23
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Old Gold , Where are you located ? Im in Olympia and have the same ? . I'm rebuilding a 8CM for my 41 pickup and think I have found a shop to do it. Tim
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Old 05-13-2021, 11:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

I have contacted most the rebuilders mentioned in this thread and every one of them, so far, has seemed to know what they’re doing but each have a different approach to rebuilding these old flatheads. A couple want to replace the crank with either a later model factory crank, one guy wanted to buy an all new crank, rods, cam, etc. and some are fine with using the factory internals. I still have yet to determine if this engine is a 221 or a 239 but I’m sure it’s a 1941, possibly a 1942 based on what I’ve learned from previous engine identification discussions. The consensus with all the builders is that determining whether the block is good is the first step and that a visual inspection for cracks doesn’t tell the whole story since cracks can show up during the magnafluxing as well as after the machining operations. There does appear, from what I can see since it’s still assembled, is that there is a bit of rust and corrosion inside the heads, water pumps, and I’m assuming it carries on throughout the block. I know this will need to be cleaned out and pressure tested. Is there anything wrong with running the factory crank? Are floater bearings that bad or are they just a paint to deal with. If this motor seems solid and cannot visually find any cracks, is there any reason why I shouldn’t just replace some gaskets, oil, clean out the rust and see if it’ll run? Prices on a rebuild so far are $5k - $11k. Most likely, I will have the machining done by someone qualified and assemble the motor myself, to not only learn more but also to save a few bucks. I still have plenty to do on my ‘36 pickup so I’m not in any hurry on this engine, but still wanting to get an early jump on it. I appreciate all the advice.

Tim, I am in Silver Creek... about an hour south of Olympia. Let me know what you’ve found out. Thanks.
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Old 05-13-2021, 11:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

For a stock engine or even mild hot rod your crank is just fine as I stated earlier floater bearings are just fine to very good & really no big deal to set up.
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Old 05-13-2021, 04:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
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For a stock engine or even mild hot rod your crank is just fine as I stated earlier floater bearings are just fine to very good & really no big deal to set up.
That may be true, but they are expensive, and certain sizes can be difficult or impossible to find. If you can find the later crankshaft out of a Mercury, you will be miles ahead.
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Old 05-13-2021, 05:22 PM   #27
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That may be true, but they are expensive, and certain sizes can be difficult or impossible to find. If you can find the later crankshaft out of a Mercury, you will be miles ahead.
Tub with all due respect I have been buying the floater bearings for years to include recently of many sizes. With patience & contacts to include the Barn they are all typically available in most all sizes for very reasonable prices. I have 30 plus engines many 8BA & Merc crank assemblies so it’s not a problem if needed for me to switch to later assembly but I find it just as economical to use the early parts with the great floaters. If you don’t want to do the leg work &
Or need bearings right away you may pay big $ for them but with patience it’s not necessary. The lil 60 bearings can be even more of a challenge but agin with patience my inventory is large at little cost. Please note. I am not in the parts business so I purchase for the engines I build for customers & myself.
Cheers
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eg. .030 under rod bearings to suit 2" crank journals for $150 for sale right now available to all that look. Thats not expensive in my world.

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Old 05-15-2021, 12:45 PM   #28
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

What you guys are debating about seems to be the main difference between the builders I've spoken to. Half are good with the factory type bearings and the others want to install all new later model crank, rods, cam, etc. or at least use good factory 59A or 8BA pieces. I'm not looking for any more performance than a factory prewar flathead provided. I want it to run good and be reliable, but I don't expect much more from the old flathead than that. I'll most likely run the floater bearings and the crank that is in the engine, assuming the crank is good and that I can find the size of bearing I need. Thanks
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Old 05-15-2021, 01:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
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What you guys are debating about seems to be the main difference between the builders I've spoken to. Half are good with the factory type bearings and the others want to install all new later model crank, rods, cam, etc. or at least use good factory 59A or 8BA pieces. I'm not looking for any more performance than a factory prewar flathead provided. I want it to run good and be reliable, but I don't expect much more from the old flathead than that. I'll most likely run the floater bearings and the crank that is in the engine, assuming the crank is good and that I can find the size of bearing I need. Thanks
Even I will say that's your best course.
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Old 05-16-2021, 04:05 PM   #30
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Thanks for all the help!
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Old 01-03-2022, 01:27 PM   #31
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Has anyone had recent contact with Dave Tatom? He has been laid up in the hospital and then assisted living since June. I was in regular contact with him up until a few weeks ago and now his cell# is disconnected. He had to shut down his business and his landlord said that his helpers have cleaned out his shop.
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Old 01-03-2022, 03:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Dave will probably not be back in business himself. I think he is selling or has sold his mahine tools to a person who wants to learn flatheads from Dave. The thing is, Dave is still in rehab and who knows when or if he will be strong enough to assist the new guy. Sad that this knowledge and experience is slowly disappearing. As I said in a previous post, I have several engines he did the machine work on. I spoke with him just a couple of days ago.
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Old 01-04-2022, 08:37 AM   #33
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Default Re: PNW Flathead Rebuilders

Great post. First thing, what do you expect from the finished product? Also the 8ba block and rotating assy would be my first choice, as it's the least expensive to rebuild. The block can also be used by putting the 59 Head and cam init. Again cost savings ans a quality finished product. 258ci with milled heads, stock early intake and distributor, Excellent performance and economy.
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Old 01-04-2022, 09:47 AM   #34
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Hi OG360, I had the same ? about one year ago. I found three old school shops that know what they are talking about. All of them are very busy. Buds in Lake wood has done work for me on my flat head Cadillac and really knows his stuff. How ever he is 80 years old and not taking any more work on until he finds more machinist for his shop. Barry's in Chehalis is very good and had two 8BAs on the floor when I was there last spring talking with him. I ended up going to Portland Engine Rebuilders because I wanted hard seats cut into my 53 block and they had the equipment and experience to do it. Great guys with lots of experience with flat head fords. Be warned these guys are all good but have long waiting lines. The shortest time frame was Barry's at four months. Prices seemed to be around $3000 at that time. Of course that depends on the work you want done. Where are you at? I'm Olympia. Tim
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