Front motor mount, somethings not quite right.

[mack4759]

As I have become more familiar with the Model A, I realized that my motor mount was missing a lot of its components. All it has is the yoke and some remains of some kind of a bushing. This has left the motor mount resting on the cross member leaving about 1/4" between the crankshaft and the cross member. I ordered a spring set from Snyders but find that it does not fit on the yoke. The yoke stud has a much larger diameter so the auxiliary spring, coil spring, brass bushing and castle nut will not fit onto the yoke. Were there any variations from year to year or is this an off sized repro?

Attached are a couple pictures, the bottom of the mount has a rubber cup on the stud and you can see what remained of the bushing material protruding through the mounting hole. The nut does not have any pressure on it, it is merely holding the rubber cup in place. I imagine this is just the previous owners make shift attempt on a mount? Any input would be appreciated, thanks!

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Mack,

Please go to Marco's site where he has an explanation & diagrams of correct spring height & yoke configuration, etc.

From the photo (3) of (3) taken from underneath, it looks like your front cross member has had it, & it won't be long before the yoke will collapse through the damaged hole in the front cross member whereby your pulley will be supporting the front of the engine -- not a good situation.

Do you have a Model A Club nearby?

Difficult to analyze photos; but what one sees does not appear normal.

It would be a good idea to have it physically looked at by an experienced "Model A" individual as opposed to a modern mechanic not familiar with vintage engine front supports.

Hope this helps.

[Aok]

Can't say why it has a larger bolt but over 80+ years owners do all kinds of things to make something work for them. Here is a photo of my front mount it is the earlier style yoke all but the york were replaced with parts from Snyder and it all fit as it should. Mine had a heavy after maket spring set up set which I replaced with what is in the photo.

[RichPA]

Looks like an aftermarket yoke to me. I agree the crossmember is hurt but it can be repaired. I don.t recommend the brass bushing, use the washer setup to keep vibrations to a minimum.

[mack4759]

Thank you for your responses! I checked out Marco's site and the springs match the dimensions given, not sure about measuring the load but their physical size matches. I do not see anything regarding the yoke dimension though.

We just started a new club so I will see if I can convince someone into taking a look at it.

Do you think that this would be repairable with the engine installed or will it need to be removed? Maybe get by with removing the yoke and pulley and jacking up the engine a tad? Need to remove the radiator?

Also, does anyone have any measurements on the cross member? The hole is probably 1-1 1/2" in diameter right now.

Lastly is there a specific type of washer to use instead of the brass bushing?

Thanks again!

[pat in Santa Cruz]

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The brass bushing used originally was replaced by a steel flat washer. I cannot remember the dates, but its in the Service Bulletins. Your cross member has been buggered up to the point I do not think you could use a stock motor mount now. BTW, something is also awry with your spring U bolts. They are waaayyy too long. I have seen cross members repaired in the car. The radiator must be removed and the bad portion of the cross member can be cut out and replaced by a new piece of metal welded in place. Find a good, certified welder who can repair it properly. This is not an area you want cobbled together. You might need to bring him a good cross member to use as a reference or to cut a repair piece from.

[Rusty Homestead Fl]

If you have to jack the engine up be sure to loosen the rear mounts. There is danger of breaking the flywheel housing if you don't.

[Joe K]

You might do the job without taking the radiator off if it were only a matter of swapping the front support. However, it's looking like your front crossmember could use a little attention.

Unbolt the two rods connecting the radiator with the firewall. Then remove (carefully) the hood. Then remove the radiator shroud (4 small bolts) and then the radiator itself (hoses & clamps, two spring bolts attaching to the front crossmember)

Once you've accessed the offending area, you can put a strap around the waterpump and pull up slightly. ( edit: see note above on rear mounts)

The two bolts holding the front support to the engine can then be removed. Access might be better by removing the lowermost (crankshaft) pulley, but that means you have to discombobulate the whole generator/waterpump/crank belt stuff.

Repairs to the front cross member can then proceed by welding (preferably.) I might examine the failed area to see if it can be covered by a plate, or even by the lower spring of the stock motor mount. You might use a LARGE heavy washer underneath since the hole now seems large enough for the normal bolt and washer used here to pass through. But look to that first sentence if you can at all. The best repair is the one you know a certain outcome from.

I hate to see them when they hurt.

Joe K

[Tom Wesenberg]

This is what it should look like, but I have no way to measure the hole now. I think it's about 5/8" or 3/4", but am not sure.

[columbiA]

It looks like someone welded a 1/2" NC stud on bottom of yoke instead of a 7/16" NF stud.I like to use the stepped brass washer to keep things aligned.The C-member needs to be repaired.

[mack4759]

I talked with some club members, unfortunately I could not get anyone to look at it but one member did give me one of his extra original mounts and another member suggested going with the float-a-motor mount as it would be more secure considering the damage. He has a very good point so I will not rule out that option, but if possible I would like to stick with the original style mount.

I was finally able to take the car to a certified welder today. Talked to them about removing the hood, radiator and pulley so they could have access to the crossmember, but they suggested attacking it from the underside by welding a 1/4" plate around the bottom of the crossmember. They said that instead of cutting out the damaged area and welding in a patch panel, they would just reinforce what was there. I think this might give a stronger repair, but wonder what others think of this approach?

Also thanks for the tip on loosening the rear motor mounts, I definitely want to avoid any further damage to the rest of the car.

[Jordan]

If it were me, I would just cut my losses and go with a front float a motor mount system. Any repair done won't be exactly right, and may cause other problems. The front float a motor will just get ride of having any support in that problemed area and it's not a very obvious change.

[Fred K-OR]

It would be a bit more work, but a person can buy a good used front cross member. If you have the radiator off and a few other things, with some more effort you could replace that cross member with a good used one. You can find them on EBay or on this site. And then get a good stock motor mount. That is just my $.02 worth. I have been through this not knowing anything about this sort of thing and it is not that big of a job.

[700rpm]

Fred has the correct solution. Do it right, and do it once. Otherwise you're likely to be explaining and apologizing every time someone looks at that area. When I work on my cars I'm always thinking about what the next owner will think when he sees my work.

[Fred K-OR]

If you choose to replace the front cross member, Bert's in Denver is also a good place to check for a good used one.

[dave in australia]

IMHO, if your keeping the car, weld the plate on, and then gather the parts required to replace at a later date. I would stick with the original style front mount, mainly because it is what you already have, less expense.

[TudooR31]

Any reason why Les Andrews would neglect to say "remove crank pulley, then pull yoke out of cross member."?
Have rear mounts loose, engine up until linkage hitting firewall.
Still need another .5" to clear the cross member w/o removing crank pulley.

[1931 flamingo]

Take the throttle linkage off and it might clear. Hope you haven't bent or damaged the linkage.
Paul in CT

[Joe K]

And don't forget you have radius rods attached to the bell housing bottom. Undo the two bolts and remove the cap and let the front axle "float." THEN you should be able to tilt the engine up.

Joe K

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by TudooR31

Any reason why Les Andrews would neglect to say "remove crank pulley, then pull yoke out of cross member."?

Because it is not a perfect book?