The Ford Barn

rfitzpatrick · 10-05-2019, 08:08 PM

I can stick my finger into the radiator -- gets covered with oil. Where do I start? I find no water in my oil-but all began (to notice) right after an oil change-not that it still may have been before changing.

Where do I began?
Thanks Guys

Mike V. Florida · 10-05-2019, 09:13 PM

Might sound stupid but do you have water in your oil? What did the oil look like when you changed it? Did it look like a chocolate milk shake?

What does the oil look like on your dip stick?

1crosscut · 10-05-2019, 09:43 PM

Good chance it is just grease from the water pump. If you don't see any water in the oil I would consider draining the coolant and putting water and a detergent in the cooling system and run it for a while then drain and flush. I understand that some have used dishwasher detergent since it will not suds up.
Go for the easy fix first.

rfitzpatrick · 10-06-2019, 06:38 AM

OK, no water in the oil. It's a fresh oil-change. I did grease the water-pump but this time--so very little - just a bump on the grease gun.

Going 'east-fix' first
Thanks

rfitzpatrick · 10-06-2019, 12:17 PM

There's no change after the "Easy-Fix" as mentioned-- what needs doing next?
Thanks

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-06-2019, 12:40 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rfitzpatrick

There's no change after the "Easy-Fix" as mentioned-- what needs doing next?
Thanks

So you have flushed the cooling system with detergent, and still getting oil in

rfitzpatrick · 10-06-2019, 01:06 PM

OK, not a detergent -- something called Simply Green. I'm about to take another run and checking cylinder compression afterwards. I also forgot to mention -- my radiator is a month old BrassWorks -- not that it matters, but is the last thing done to the engine until I noticed oil floating under the cap

Thanks

rfitzpatrick · 10-06-2019, 01:50 PM

60 PSI each cylinder. It's almost like something is desolving in the water, but it is oil-
what's the chances every cylinder reads 60 psi too?

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-06-2019, 03:13 PM

Any chance that Brassworks ships radiators with an internal coating/preservative in them that keeps rust/corrosion away during shipping/storage?

Simply(Simple?) Green is also a detergent of sorts, cuts grease/oil.

As long as the compression readings were taken with the spark advance lever at full retard and all plugs are remove, would think the reading are real.

rfitzpatrick · 10-06-2019, 03:23 PM

[QUOTE=30 Closed Cab PU;1806992]Any chance that Brassworks ships radiators with an internal coating/preservative in them that keeps rust/corrosion away during shipping/storage?

Well I'll be darn !! Now there was some paper work instructions talking about corrosion building up if the radiator wasn't installed right away after shipment -- it did set-up for 4 weeks before installation. Paper work mentioned keeping it stored Up-Right too (which I did), never laying on it's sides. That paper work is long gone--

Still, I find 60 psi across interesting--
Thanks

old31 · 10-06-2019, 04:01 PM

I would not worry at all about 60 in each cylinder. That is very good.

redmodelt · 10-06-2019, 08:53 PM

Re;As long as the compression readings were taken with the spark advance lever at full retard and all

I think you meant throttle and if you didn't, spark has nothing to do with checking compression.

Re the oil; depending on the history of the car, could someone got carried away with the solvable oil or block sealer? The inside of the block in now coated and is getting washed out. One of my Uncles must have added a lot of it (block sealer) to my 48 in the past, the inside of the radiator neck is really greasy oily sometimes.

1crosscut · 10-06-2019, 09:10 PM

Simple Green is a great product to use for getting grease and oils out. I didn't mention it in my earlier post as using it diluted may not be strong enough to clear it out. That is unless you put three gallons in your system and ran it that way for a while. ( a bit spendy I would think )
When I had the original radiator out of my truck I put a gallon of undiluted Simple Green in it and sloshed it around once or twice a day for a couple of weeks and it got it super clean.

Try the dishwasher soap.

redmodelt · 10-07-2019, 12:20 AM

4 weeks wouldn't hardly be any time in the car restoration world.

While not impossible, it is kinda hard to get oil into the cooling system without being put there, water in the oil not so hard.

rfitzpatrick · 10-07-2019, 10:52 AM

While not impossible, it is kinda hard to get oil into the cooling system without being put there, water in the oil not so hard.[/QUOTE]

OK, I'm redoing everything did yesterday, except compression check. Simple Green tends to foam tho--bought this litter-box so that when I drain, I have a very large area I can view.
Tomorrow maybe another oil change so that I have another view. There's just 130 miles on this one.

What I've notice: leaveing everything alone and over nite - oil will pool in the upper tank

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-07-2019, 02:57 PM

Thanks for correcting me, senior moment. That's something I've always noticed here, mistakes get corrected, which is a good thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Re;As long as the compression readings were taken with the spark advance lever at full retard and all

I think you meant throttle and if you didn't, spark has nothing to do with checking compression.

Re the oil; depending on the history of the car, could someone got carried away with the solvable oil or block sealer? The inside of the block in now coated and is getting washed out. One of my Uncles must have added a lot of it (block sealer) to my 48 in the past, the inside of the radiator neck is really greasy oily sometimes.

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-07-2019, 03:08 PM

What I've notice: leaveing everything alone and over nite - oil will pool in the upper tank[/QUOTE]
-------------------------------------

Makes sense, oil separates and floats on top of water.

Perhaps possible previous simple green treatment was insufficient to get all the grease out if it is grease?

rfitzpatrick · 10-07-2019, 03:38 PM

Perhaps possible previous simple green treatment was insufficient to get all the grease out if it is grease?[/QUOTE]

The grease I use on the pump is red. what I'm pulling out on my fingers is black. Right now, I've done another Simple Green application and let it set over-nite-- I've already ran the engine a distance.
And just like the other times, the oil is pooling under the radiator cap just now.
I really would like to figure this out --
I keep hoping I say something that will trigger someones experience that will help me settle this matter

Thanks

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-07-2019, 04:52 PM

Perhaps posting on HAMB/another Forum or talking to motor rebuilders (Bert's?) are additional resources.

Am an armchair mechanic on motors. But to me this is not making a lot of sense. Last thing you did was an oil change, without dropping the oil pan. Unless there is a crack in the block that was sealed by gunk and the oil change flushed gunk out of the crack. Seems not likely to me, if the oil was pressurized, more of a possibility, but oil is high flow, pretty much no pressure in an A. Would think you would see teh other side too - water in the oil.

Perhaps others have a better idea of where the oil system is close to the cooling system.

I am out ideas with my limited knowledge, so am bowing out - good luck, hope you find the issue.

redmodelt · 10-07-2019, 08:25 PM

The valve galleries would be about the only place that would be close to the water jacket or blown gasket on engine that pumping a heck of a lot of oil, but in both cases there would be water in the oil. Do you have a kid? When I was about 3 I helped Dad by playing gas station worker, filled one of the old cars sitting in the yard with gas out of the water hose! LOL

History · 10-07-2019, 09:19 PM

Lol,,, nice on the gas.

Its going to be interesting to see what this turns out to be. I'll ask my friend when I see him, maybe he knows of some possibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

The valve galleries would be about the only place that would be close to the water jacket or blown gasket on engine that pumping a heck of a lot of oil, but in both cases there would be water in the oil. Do you have a kid? When I was about 3 I helped Dad by playing gas station worker, filled one of the old cars sitting in the yard with gas out of the water hose! LOL

1crosscut · 10-07-2019, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

The valve galleries would be about the only place that would be close to the water jacket or blown gasket on engine that pumping a heck of a lot of oil, but in both cases there would be water in the oil. Do you have a kid? When I was about 3 I helped Dad by playing gas station worker, filled one of the old cars sitting in the yard with gas out of the water hose! LOL

My oldest boy was about the same age when he filled up my cassette player in my truck with the change I kept in the ash tray of my truck. Never worked again.

rfitzpatrick · 10-10-2019, 03:22 PM

I've found why I have oil in my water chamber. My number 8 head-stud is stripped, I can not get it to torque. I found it with a double-nut -- so I thought the second one was for holding the distrubtor cable off the head. It wasn't exactly that way. I took the top nut off, when I went to removed the second one, it slipped right off, so it was there as a spacer. Anyway I took the first nut and beganning threading it back on the stud, and that when I found it had an area where the threads in the head stud was stripped. This has to be the problem--
Thanks Everyone for the advise

redmodelt · 10-10-2019, 05:16 PM

There is no oil in those locations all studs would end in the water jacket if they were open to same, but they are not (normally). Keep looking.

rfitzpatrick · 10-10-2019, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

There is no oil in those locations all studs would end in the water jacket if they were open to same, but they are not (normally). Keep looking.

That oil is wicking up the stud mean anything?
Thanks

redmodelt · 10-10-2019, 07:46 PM

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There is no where that the stud holes would come into contact with oil in the pan to wick up. Now if someone dumped a lot of oil in the adjacent cylinder and there was a bad gasket in that area, then oil could get pushed up when the engine is cranked over and wick up. Same with getting oil in the water, bad gasket and lots of oil in the cylinder from someone putting it in. But if oil can get in the water then water would be getting in the oil. It works both ways. Also if it was a case of lots of oil in the cylinders then it would be getting pushed into the manifolds too.

supergnat · 10-10-2019, 08:32 PM

I believe that that particular stud #8 is different than the others. I remember being cautioned to be sure to drain the water out of the system before removing that stud. If that is not done it is likely that the engine ois could be contaminated with water from the cooling system. Others may be aware of this also. You have probably found the problem. Supergnat

dumb person · 10-10-2019, 09:32 PM

For what it is worth.

I drove with a few stripped stud holes for a long time. There was 'oil' leaking out the head gasket. It would be logical that combustion gasses would be squeezed into the coolant.

redmodelt · 10-10-2019, 11:47 PM

He has oil in the radiator not water in the oil.

rfitzpatrick · 10-11-2019, 04:02 PM

OK, here's a short up-date: I began torquing the head. Number 8 was double-nutted, so I took the top nut off, noted that the second (bottom) nut was a different wrench size-- I swapped them out, couldn't get number 8 to torque, found the area of that stud just above the head to be stripped-- the former bottom nut was a spacer, or so it seems. Overnite I left number 8 loose, this AM got a new nut and began by using the bottom nut as a spacer till I can work something better. Now I've finished all my torquing, and checked the dip-stick -- now there's a quart of water in the oil! It must have leaked in during the nite-- so I've drained the oil, replaced the oil and hand-cranked the engine over about a dozen time. And of course brought the radiator level back to normal, ran the engine for a few minutes. Taking a break till tomorrow, when will take it out for a run. This is not going to look good on my Resume !?

10-05-2019, 08:08 PM	#1
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Oil In My Water I can stick my finger into the radiator -- gets covered with oil. Where do I start? I find no water in my oil-but all began (to notice) right after an oil change-not that it still may have been before changing. Where do I began? Thanks Guys

10-05-2019, 09:13 PM	#2
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Oil In My Water Might sound stupid but do you have water in your oil? What did the oil look like when you changed it? Did it look like a chocolate milk shake? What does the oil look like on your dip stick? __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

10-05-2019, 09:43 PM	#3
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,909	Re: Oil In My Water Good chance it is just grease from the water pump. If you don't see any water in the oil I would consider draining the coolant and putting water and a detergent in the cooling system and run it for a while then drain and flush. I understand that some have used dishwasher detergent since it will not suds up. Go for the easy fix first. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

10-06-2019, 06:38 AM	#4
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water OK, no water in the oil. It's a fresh oil-change. I did grease the water-pump but this time--so very little - just a bump on the grease gun. Going 'east-fix' first Thanks

10-06-2019, 12:17 PM	#5
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water There's no change after the "Easy-Fix" as mentioned-- what needs doing next? Thanks

10-06-2019, 01:06 PM	#7
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water OK, not a detergent -- something called Simply Green. I'm about to take another run and checking cylinder compression afterwards. I also forgot to mention -- my radiator is a month old BrassWorks -- not that it matters, but is the last thing done to the engine until I noticed oil floating under the cap Thanks

10-06-2019, 01:50 PM	#8
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water 60 PSI each cylinder. It's almost like something is desolving in the water, but it is oil- what's the chances every cylinder reads 60 psi too?

10-06-2019, 03:13 PM	#9
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Oil In My Water Any chance that Brassworks ships radiators with an internal coating/preservative in them that keeps rust/corrosion away during shipping/storage? Simply(Simple?) Green is also a detergent of sorts, cuts grease/oil. As long as the compression readings were taken with the spark advance lever at full retard and all plugs are remove, would think the reading are real.

10-06-2019, 03:23 PM	#10
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water [QUOTE=30 Closed Cab PU;1806992]Any chance that Brassworks ships radiators with an internal coating/preservative in them that keeps rust/corrosion away during shipping/storage? Well I'll be darn !! Now there was some paper work instructions talking about corrosion building up if the radiator wasn't installed right away after shipment -- it did set-up for 4 weeks before installation. Paper work mentioned keeping it stored Up-Right too (which I did), never laying on it's sides. That paper work is long gone-- Still, I find 60 psi across interesting-- Thanks

10-06-2019, 04:01 PM	#11
old31 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 2,098	Re: Oil In My Water I would not worry at all about 60 in each cylinder. That is very good.

10-06-2019, 08:53 PM	#12
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Oil In My Water Re;As long as the compression readings were taken with the spark advance lever at full retard and all I think you meant throttle and if you didn't, spark has nothing to do with checking compression. Re the oil; depending on the history of the car, could someone got carried away with the solvable oil or block sealer? The inside of the block in now coated and is getting washed out. One of my Uncles must have added a lot of it (block sealer) to my 48 in the past, the inside of the radiator neck is really greasy oily sometimes. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

10-06-2019, 09:10 PM	#13
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,909	Re: Oil In My Water Simple Green is a great product to use for getting grease and oils out. I didn't mention it in my earlier post as using it diluted may not be strong enough to clear it out. That is unless you put three gallons in your system and ran it that way for a while. ( a bit spendy I would think ) When I had the original radiator out of my truck I put a gallon of undiluted Simple Green in it and sloshed it around once or twice a day for a couple of weeks and it got it super clean. Try the dishwasher soap. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

10-07-2019, 12:20 AM	#14
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Oil In My Water 4 weeks wouldn't hardly be any time in the car restoration world. While not impossible, it is kinda hard to get oil into the cooling system without being put there, water in the oil not so hard. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! Last edited by redmodelt; 10-07-2019 at 09:30 AM.

10-07-2019, 10:52 AM	#15
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water While not impossible, it is kinda hard to get oil into the cooling system without being put there, water in the oil not so hard.[/QUOTE] OK, I'm redoing everything did yesterday, except compression check. Simple Green tends to foam tho--bought this litter-box so that when I drain, I have a very large area I can view. Tomorrow maybe another oil change so that I have another view. There's just 130 miles on this one. What I've notice: leaveing everything alone and over nite - oil will pool in the upper tank

10-07-2019, 03:08 PM	#17
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Oil In My Water What I've notice: leaveing everything alone and over nite - oil will pool in the upper tank[/QUOTE] ------------------------------------- Makes sense, oil separates and floats on top of water. Perhaps possible previous simple green treatment was insufficient to get all the grease out if it is grease?

10-07-2019, 03:38 PM	#18
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water Perhaps possible previous simple green treatment was insufficient to get all the grease out if it is grease?[/QUOTE] The grease I use on the pump is red. what I'm pulling out on my fingers is black. Right now, I've done another Simple Green application and let it set over-nite-- I've already ran the engine a distance. And just like the other times, the oil is pooling under the radiator cap just now. I really would like to figure this out -- I keep hoping I say something that will trigger someones experience that will help me settle this matter Thanks

10-07-2019, 04:52 PM	#19
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Oil In My Water Perhaps posting on HAMB/another Forum or talking to motor rebuilders (Bert's?) are additional resources. Am an armchair mechanic on motors. But to me this is not making a lot of sense. Last thing you did was an oil change, without dropping the oil pan. Unless there is a crack in the block that was sealed by gunk and the oil change flushed gunk out of the crack. Seems not likely to me, if the oil was pressurized, more of a possibility, but oil is high flow, pretty much no pressure in an A. Would think you would see teh other side too - water in the oil. Perhaps others have a better idea of where the oil system is close to the cooling system. I am out ideas with my limited knowledge, so am bowing out - good luck, hope you find the issue.

10-07-2019, 08:25 PM	#20
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Oil In My Water The valve galleries would be about the only place that would be close to the water jacket or blown gasket on engine that pumping a heck of a lot of oil, but in both cases there would be water in the oil. Do you have a kid? When I was about 3 I helped Dad by playing gas station worker, filled one of the old cars sitting in the yard with gas out of the water hose! LOL __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

10-10-2019, 03:22 PM	#23
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water I've found why I have oil in my water chamber. My number 8 head-stud is stripped, I can not get it to torque. I found it with a double-nut -- so I thought the second one was for holding the distrubtor cable off the head. It wasn't exactly that way. I took the top nut off, when I went to removed the second one, it slipped right off, so it was there as a spacer. Anyway I took the first nut and beganning threading it back on the stud, and that when I found it had an area where the threads in the head stud was stripped. This has to be the problem-- Thanks Everyone for the advise

10-10-2019, 05:16 PM	#24
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Oil In My Water There is no oil in those locations all studs would end in the water jacket if they were open to same, but they are not (normally). Keep looking. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

10-10-2019, 07:46 PM	#26
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Oil In My Water Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) There is no where that the stud holes would come into contact with oil in the pan to wick up. Now if someone dumped a lot of oil in the adjacent cylinder and there was a bad gasket in that area, then oil could get pushed up when the engine is cranked over and wick up. Same with getting oil in the water, bad gasket and lots of oil in the cylinder from someone putting it in. But if oil can get in the water then water would be getting in the oil. It works both ways. Also if it was a case of lots of oil in the cylinders then it would be getting pushed into the manifolds too. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

10-10-2019, 08:32 PM	#27
supergnat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Palmyra, NJ Posts: 475	Re: Oil In My Water I believe that that particular stud #8 is different than the others. I remember being cautioned to be sure to drain the water out of the system before removing that stud. If that is not done it is likely that the engine ois could be contaminated with water from the cooling system. Others may be aware of this also. You have probably found the problem. Supergnat

10-10-2019, 09:32 PM	#28
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: Oil In My Water For what it is worth. I drove with a few stripped stud holes for a long time. There was 'oil' leaking out the head gasket. It would be logical that combustion gasses would be squeezed into the coolant. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

10-10-2019, 11:47 PM	#29
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Oil In My Water He has oil in the radiator not water in the oil. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

10-11-2019, 04:02 PM	#30
rfitzpatrick Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Coral Springs, Florida Posts: 552	Re: Oil In My Water OK, here's a short up-date: I began torquing the head. Number 8 was double-nutted, so I took the top nut off, noted that the second (bottom) nut was a different wrench size-- I swapped them out, couldn't get number 8 to torque, found the area of that stud just above the head to be stripped-- the former bottom nut was a spacer, or so it seems. Overnite I left number 8 loose, this AM got a new nut and began by using the bottom nut as a spacer till I can work something better. Now I've finished all my torquing, and checked the dip-stick -- now there's a quart of water in the oil! It must have leaked in during the nite-- so I've drained the oil, replaced the oil and hand-cranked the engine over about a dozen time. And of course brought the radiator level back to normal, ran the engine for a few minutes. Taking a break till tomorrow, when will take it out for a run. This is not going to look good on my Resume !?